I agree that it is complicated, but I don't think a map with a "plateau" advances from 1500rpm up to work well! Apart from all the fittings would also be a bit steep!
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I agree that it is complicated, but I don't think a map with a "plateau" advances from 1500rpm up to work well! Apart from all the fittings would also be a bit steep!
I am absolutely convinced that will? bad for you? I wanted to try (if there was no risk of crack on the engine) to test it with the foot, the effects of advances on all the range!
Let us know then! I'm curious, I don't think you can break something, but I expect that in low revs hurt! :)
time inj does not have a performance "adjust" in quantity, but they have the technical timing of the opening pin which depend in particular on the rail pressure, then the opening time of the needle always remains the same and the more it stays open the more amount of diesel is injected, then a normal and that employs 1 mm3=207 x 80 to inject 80 mm3, but there put? much less because the needle open only once
But anyway, you don't need to know this to calculate the advance payments you just need the injection time in the map for what to calcolarti the exact time of injection you can do it from a pompista to tour you can go near if I'm not mistaken, and used the formula and charge of the capacitor
However, a principle, you can do it..if you really want to know the micron diesel fuel then you need to proceed differently, and for via test benches....in the late 80 78 82 mm3 do not granch? difference
The advances are changed only on the naturally aspirated engine, the turbo will only change if the car has other issues after having mapped without advance.
Where written this rule??
Quoto. According to me, the change of the advances ? very important both for performance and for fuel consumption. I gave up 3 degrees in some parts of the 'load paralyzed' (calculating all with durations of injection, pressure, diesel fuel and engine rpm), and the difference feels right, the throttle response ? pi? responsive and fuel consumption drop of, not a little, especially in the area of 1500 to 2500. At high rpm instead of the down as well a bit with a light load as the injection ends much before tdc in the last curve. This from the original I think is done on purpose to make a quicker cooling of the engine at the time of release, this is I think from the moment that if I let to hit the throttle to 4500 the egt go down immediately, if, however, a 4500 I put in neutral and let off immediately the engine at 850-900 rpm the egt go down more? slowly.Quote:
Originally Written by jovandj
However, I also reached more than 6 degrees in pi? to 4000 rpm without having the machine walls, speaking also of car with turbo plus, and other components changed. If the diesel fuel is given in abundance, and the advance must be given just as carefully always trying not to inject too much over the pms. The management of the afr has a population of mounts as with a Afr of pi? low " it will speed? the combustion process and then will be? need less advance, and vice versa Afr lean tend to have need? an advance higher because of their speed? combustion is less.
hello
if I can, how high is 1 degree in the map?
excuse the ignorance, as they do at lower temperatures by lowering the advance at high rpm and low load, and, at the time of release, you should not be at zero load?
with regard to the difference of heat exchange between the mad and the release in the rotation you say that ? always a question in advance, or because the motor is in rotation and enters the Cut-Off ?
The temperature drops because? as it says in Engine83 leaving the engine at a high rpm with request 0 the water pump continues to put into circulation the liquidocon a speed? much higher than that if it were in neutral, then we must not forget that the higher the flow rate of air that enters the engine ? higher than the low, also helps to cool.
Advances have nothing to do, even why? in the release, the injection ? 0!
I'm on normal maps do not edit the advance payments. On mod 'human'. Not more than the degree, even if the limit should be 4gradi.
When you start to inject the right amount? substantial from 100mm3 up only 4 degrees, according to me, is not enough.Quote:
Originally Written by easter
Personally with 110mm3 use 5 degrees about the 2.0 mjet which has injectors pi? fast.
I, of course, the increments to the advance does not need to be given to cazzum wisdom well as 1 degree can be harmful, personally, after the advice of jack I moddato advances in the regime 1250 3000 2 degrees you will notice the difference, of course, the machine responds better to spool the turbo, which of course go to lose you retrieve the map with the vgt, for example at 4000 I have about 4 degrees to 80mm3 press rail stock to 1600, with even 0.5 degrees of post PMS and the rest before TDC, now I'm trying to remove a little of advance at low rpm with high IQ to get in better spool the turbo you talk about 0.5 degrees, a bit like the 1.9 140cv-e3 2.0 170cvQuote:
Originally Written by jacktheripper2
Sincerely would put up the pressure diesel to 1700 bar and remove a little in advance so as to keep 1 degrees Atdc to 4000 rpm and the end of injection at tdc at 4500 rpm, with 0.1 in most of the turbo pressure. Also you can give even more of 80mm3 in the medium regime, coming up to 95mm3 without smoke. Usually I do 90mm3 from the map and a ruler, then from the lambda to what limit.Quote:
Originally Written by jovandj
With 80mm3 about 3800 rpm I rolled on bapro 170 hp on a 8v with only 0.05 in most of the turbo pressure (1.45-1.5 peak and 1.35 to 4000).
The rail pressure bring it almost to the maximum. For you with 1600bar default you arrive as well to 1750. Not ? that increases only to make themselves better. You just need to increase only the prex of the rail, the control unit is autoadatta on almost all of the other parameters, but not on the advance. The advances should be made only by the 3000giri up, cos? you are unable to 'digest' all the diesel fuel injected. Do not forget a factor very important for the 16v...the intersection. Greetings.
I'm sorry but I do not agree. First of all raise the rail to 1750 bar, especially on standard maps, I find it to be only harmful to the pump and the injectors.Quote:
Originally Written by easter
Second, the advances, if you know what you are doing, you can make completely, the engine will clearly improve in reattivit? and consumption.
The control unit does not autoadatta at all, changing the rail pressure varies that and that's it. The edc16c39, among other things, autoadatta only with respect to lambda, in particular, to match the data detected by the mass air flow sensor with those of the lambda.Quote:
Originally Written by easter
Then you should anticipate only at 3000rpm? According to what rule?
I always argue that it anticipates where it is needed, that is to say, adjust the injection in order to have a balance between the pressures in the chamber and exhaust temperatures so as to take better advantage of the engine.
Raising the rail to only change the injection time which is shortened a bit. But everything else remains exactly the same.
Sorry, but harmful x what? If the high pressure pump has an operating range of up to 1800bar why? it should break? The same goes for the injectors.Quote:
Originally Written by jacktheripper2
Chiaritemi a doubt...but what are the advances? What are they for?
Also the amount? of fuel and other things. This from the edc16.Quote:
Originally Written by jacktheripper2
it will only fit on the lambda...and you said nothing! what is this adaptation? which parameters change in the regular course of the lambda?Quote:
Originally Written by SandroMarciano
reading your responses, including the following in your message that you quoted, I know that something don't you ? clear. First of all, raising the pressure of fuel does not increase the amount? diesel fuel is injected, because it decreases the time of injection and the quantity? diesel fuel therefore remains unchanged, we are not talking about an add-on module that tricks the pressure sensor diesel, and then the ecu unconsciously alzer? the pressure of fuel without then abbasssare the time of the injection, and then, in that case, the amount? of diesel fuel increases.Quote:
Originally Written by easter
The advance is given to keep egt are not too high, however, and to make better use of the surplus of diesel injected.
The pressure in the chamber ? the pressure that is created in the combustion chamber for each cycle of the engine, and this ? very much influenced by the advance used, by the pressure from the turbo and from the amount? diesel fuel is injected.
If you think it is healthy to work the fuel pump, the component is very delicate, close to its limit you to continue with your theory.Quote:
Originally Written by easter
The advances are the angle of start of injection with respect to the pms anyway.
the hp pump has specific and up to 1800, but it surely increases a lot of wear to the pressures that you speak of. Together they will also increase the inefficiencies, and thus the power consumption, so that pressure ? inevitable work with l? where the injection time becomes too long, but this one has with maps and thrusts and components are often increased (especially TC).Quote:
Originally Written by easter
absolutely no, by changing the p.rail only changes the pressure, and then the ecu uses a longer time? short to inject the same fuel.Quote:
Originally Written by easter
1 - the lambda is autoadatta to have values that are coincident between mass air flow sensor and oxygen remaining in the exhaust gas, then ? an adjustment that depends on the component, from its internal features, it does not vary by changing the map, in fact, that procedure must be done if you replace the mass air flow sensor or lambda probe.Quote:
Originally Written by easter
2 - pressure in the room means the maximum pressure reached in the combustion chamber, which allows one to move the piston.
3 - why you should anticipate only from 3000rpm?
4 - the temperature in the room (along with the pressures) are also a problem of diesel engines with high specific power.
Quote:
Originally Written by jacktheripper2
For down payments....I was rhetorical :)
hello Ela, your speech ? logical, but if I have a pump that I sold with operating characteristics to 1600bar why? it should break? Understand my speech? It would be like saying that your car has an engine that can? turn 4500g/m ,but you do turn up to 3000 if you do not wear before. At that point, made a panda! haha
Hi to all, I would like to reopen this discussion because, in addition to being interesting and vital to the understanding of the mod to make advances, even the idea of what is going to be changed and the conditions under which it is clarified by reading the various rear
Now let us turn to the questions that I would like to ask...
Let's take an example on the car stock with engine 1,9 jtdm (in my case, the 147 120 hp-treated by the English name..) that as factors of advances ORI has:
975 (µsec has 22 degrees to 70mm3 of inj with 1600bar of prx at 4500rpm and calculated from the pms to 26,32 degrees (+ 5 degrees of post and I think there are too many).
In the incrementing of that map (we are talking about edc16c39) to take it to an iq equal to 100mm3, I calculate the times and all the rest that I need and finqui ok.
The last step before upload it is to climb the advances for the new IQ, which, from 22,01 degrees ori doing the calculations, I get to 1180 µsec with 31,86 degrees with the rail pressure to 1700 (having the pump rail of the lybra 2,4 I presume contains such a request without problems as it is not for a long time, of course..).
Now my question is this..
How do I determine the value to be set on the advances to ensure that you do not go out out with degrees (in theory as I understand it no more than 3, but they are voices) to be able to increase this map based on the increase of IQ ?
Just wondering what criteria should be increased (regardless of whether in % or calculated.. I have taste), and what are the limits to which I can escape?
I am working on this map but I'm stuck on these points, as the details are not clear enough about it.
I thought of climbing all the map advances so as to arrive at the maximum at 25 degrees that I know more than I'm going to the wall increases (not done, but read by tidus) but I don't know what criteria, if climbing by the 70mm3 to 100 with only 3 degrees at full load or, 60mm3 to 70mm3 are specular values, consider the step 24 as the value to be set in the table 80mm3 and keep it constant up to 100mm3, but does not make much sense...
I look forward to your opinions.
I'm attaching a screen of the table in excel on which I'm working on.. is a bit confusionata but I have locked up all the factors to which to refer for the calculations without the need to click elsewhere to search for values.
I have also read on post9 of this topic but I did not understand very well...
http://www.professionalchiptuning.ne...+advances+jtdm
Annex 10517
Small OT in the annexes to the template [online support] (one in the lower right) covers the function keys.. place it so that it is unmanageable..
Hello, I answer you briefly what I think..Quote:
Originally Written by tranky
Let's say that each of us has different thoughts, I personally prefer to give a little more advance than finishing the injection and up to 10 degrees after tdc.. the failure of the engines, according to me, are more related to the map in general, and especially to the state of the components (especially the fuel injectors)..
Personally I also use 27.5-28 degrees on 8v and 30 degrees on the 16v. Certainly it's all about what to look for one from the machine, the turbine mounts, how to use the machine..
I have friends who have broken 8v with 25 degrees maximum advance as some that I do run with 27-28 degrees without problems, one also is very close to the 300cv so you can imagine the amount of fuel and turbo pressure that uses that engine (of course with the injectors appropriate).
According to me, I would never have an answer on how to do it because everyone has their own theories and opinions on the topic
Well, of course I was focused on hearing the personal opinions and have feedback/comparison with the most competent people in this regard.Quote:
Originally Written by jacktheripper2
The speech of the advances is not a simple matter of quick response, to be sure should be tested in conjunction with a pressure probe in the room and the temperature in the room, but on average it seems that on the mjet 8v up to 25 degrees does not give problems, but I repeat, it seems, is not an exact science without the proper tools. With regard to the injections you are wrong, 5 degrees post tdc nn are too many, too many are 12/13, 5 degrees at 4500 are a luxury, in the mid range, you can stay up to 8/9 degrees post tdc for noj to have too much heat, and smoke; hence, anxhe because it helps and not a little to spool the turbo.
Haven says jack, noj and an exact science, and he tests it has made a lot more of me!
I agree that it is not an easy thing, it's a year almost that I have been in the way of the ecu (they are not of the craft in the slightest) and so the study advances the chaos in comparison to the rest.Quote:
Originally Written by tidus1985
Honestly, I was hoping for your intervention, so much because I studied a lot with your post (thanks for sharing), so why are we talking about the same car you know like the palm of your hand.
Coming back to degrees then according to you the table that I posted I can safely stay to those values calculated ?
That is, from 22gradi ori to 70mm3 I can safely set the 31gradi to 100mm3 without too many problems?
I have no doubt.. I have read many of your post and I have an idea of your preparation ;)Quote:
Originally Written by tidus1985
You know that if you slap on a pylon of reinforced concrete, the tear down? T have written in clear letters 25 degrees max (28 for maps on an engine mod) , you can go to post up to 10. If you are in need of 31 degrees to 100 mm3, put 25 in the map and you will have 6 degrees of inj after tdc. It is clear stu fattu? Don't worry about the tones I and he we are used toQuote:
Originally Written by tranky
If I slam against a pillar, you move before him to me, and anyway if you do not slam your head I enjoy only half.. you know!Quote:
Originally Written by Errecinque
perfect.. all clear! Thank you to all 3 for the clarification
R5 uu fatt is chiar mo!
(I and r5 there like a free of charge often, but there voLLiamo well.)