Turbine 1.9 jtd 140/150 hp 16v hybridized on the 1.9 jtdm 8v 120 hp

[munro]

I do not understand the speech pressure remains for me is difficult, the pressure you create because I enter more air than normal right? then an equal number of compressed air should have the same pressure, let's say that in a narrow conduit, and not by measuring the pressure at the outlet of the turbine has a population of more head and ow, bottom are always talking about fluid dynamics, no? useless to have larger capacities, if not then I head to bring in a duct tot size, correct me if I'm wrong

There are a lot of misconceptions on the fact that "raising the press turbo it has more power." The pressure ? only a part of a complicated balance to try to get more? power from an engine. The "Boost" ? developed by the pressurization of the air that is not in the engine.
If all the air that the turbo moves v? in the cylinders, there would be the boost pressure.
i.e. for example, imagine that you are watering your garden with a hose and put the finger next to squirt the water...
pi? need to restrict the water, the more ? the pressure in the tube...
but if you do not ostruisci the water, the pressure in the tube rises.
Then the boost pressure in the plenum and in the circuit ? caused by the restriction that the air itself creates trying to get into the cylinders with the turbo and "trying to force it in pi? in" that is why we speak of "boost" turbo....

We said then that we're trying to get a greater volume of air in the cylinders...
Air that, together with the greater quantity? fuel correctly proportioned, tradurr? in more power.
if we look at an engine with four valves per cylinder, we will have almost the 98% efficiency of charging of the cylinders of that? of all the air that the engine could theoretically suck in the 98% actually it is in our case.this phenomenon in the jargon of the motor is called:volumetric efficiency....
so the only way to get more? the volume of air in the cylinders ? search for pressurization of the air.
But this does not mean that just because you? you put two times the "pressure" of air in the cylinder,this means you have double the volume.
The pressure ratios are not linear.

returning to the example of the garden hose...
If you had a hose with a good nozzle on it and let's say 2 bar of water pressure, you may be able to fill a 10-litre bucket in about 30 seconds. If you were able to increase the water pressure to 4 bar, the bucket fills up in about 22 seconds, with the met? of the time... The same tube could squirt more? far across the lawn, but really? you're not getting a lot of ir? water for your plants....

besides, just look for any compressor map to realize that, for example, if our engine needs 20lb/min of air at 1 bar to 2 you will have the same "mass" on the air
what will change, and the fact that we are trying to force further that 'the air in our engine..
but this does not always translates into more power indeed......

[alfajtd]

you exact Munro...
after some laps, in fact, becomes a phone...

:-)

[tidus1985]

ok munro, and here we are, but the speech that you did ? another, we can examine the example of the bucket because it ? another physical schema, a schema where there ? a cavity semichiusa as can be the circuiot of the intake manifold of a car, in the bucket counts only the flow because I don't need pressure to fill it, I would only need to put a nozzle with a larger hole to equal the pressure to have a fill faster, but on a intake manifold, where my case with 1 intake valve per cylinder, already the manifold goes into the pressure more than the atmospheric with the turbine original, my nozzle are the valves, and of course without changing the turbo to have a greater arias should I replace them or change the tree to acamme to keep them open for a window of time, what to exclude, then you work of the turbocharger, the flow rate of a turbo compressor can be one that you want to impeller 100mm instead of a 10mm, for example, but that it will wander from 20mm to 900000 laps to give 1.5 bar, the 100mm will wander 90000 rpm "example" to give 1.5 bar, but the amount that can pass into the valve 1.5 bar ? the same for any turbine, it changes the rpm at which you arrive at that pressure, and then at that range, donque a gt1749 to 1.5 bar iniettera the same air that inietterea a gt2256 or a gt1749 to 1.5 bar, the difference ? that returning with less turns have a larger margin then you will be able to push more laps, and then more pressure equals more air, even if the ratio of pressure/flow rate ? logarithmic and not linear, but will take more air, but not comcepisco that 2 turbines that compress in a duct obstructed by something such as may be the valves, they can give different flow rates at the same pressure, caosmai at the same speed, but at the same pressure no ? a physical thing, if I inflated a tire with a compressor with a tank loaded to 6 bar, or with a cylinder of size double loaded to 6 bar and with the same nozzle, inflation, ginfiero the rubber at the same speed.

[munro]

you say:[ "no, we can examine the example of the bucket because it ? another physical schema"
according to me wrong but I can be denied by anyone....the system ? identical because it is always "closed"
since the fluid in this example ? the water for the bucket, or if you want the air to the engine, do not go anywhere once the entry in the respective container.....

then you say:"in the bucket counts only the flow because I don't need pressure to fill it"
in the example the bucket ? the engine....if you don't need pressure to fill it, but only reach the same you can? do with the engine??

then for? you say:"I would only need to put a nozzle with a larger hole to equal the pressure to have a filling faster"
as in the example, the pipe with the nozzle ? the turbo here admit that a certain amount of pressure there must be, and the more precisely you say that if you put a nozzle big on your hose and fill the bucket faster.then??a turbo big that it has more range fills your engine more quickly to equal the pressure or not??

then add:"my nozzle are the valves, and of course without changing the turbo to have a greater arias should I replace them or change the tree to acamme to keep them open for a window of time, what to exclude, and then working of turbocharger"
in this case, the valves,cams, etc... I am not your nozzle but "faucet" that allows into your engine tot air an X pressure X flow rate through your hose-nozzle-turbo st? filling the system.....

continuing, you say:"the flow rate of a turbo compressor can be one that you want to impeller 100mm instead of a 10mm, for example, but that it will wander from 20mm to 900000 laps to give 1.5 bar, the 100mm will wander 90000 rpm "example" to give 1.5 bar, but the amount that can pass into the valve 1.5 bar ? the same for any turbine"
in this case, do not keep any account a lot of variables such as density? of the air,temperature,efficiency of the two turbo compressors,compression ratios, turbo,etc,etc....
for? if you say that the air, which move the two turbomachines even if of different size and the same because your engine can only get that.....bh?..we take a lot of physical laws such as the Bernoulli or Newton or Pascal and buttiamole from the window...

here, then, you say:" donque a gt1749 to 1.5 bar iniettera the same air that inietterea a gt2256 or a gt1749 to 1.5 bar, the difference ? that returning with less turns have a larger margin then you will be able to push more laps, and then more pressure equals more air, even if the ratio of pressure/flow rate ? logarithmic and not linear, but will bring more air"
do not take it, but not l? understood,....

and finally, you say:"but not comcepisco that 2 turbines that compress in a duct obstructed by something such as may be the valves, they can give different flow rates at the same pressure, caosmai at the same speed, but at the same pressure no ? a physical thing, if I inflated a tire with a compressor with a tank loaded to 6 bar, or with a cylinder of size double loaded to 6 bar and with the same nozzle, inflation, ginfiero the rubber at the same speed."
I think I have answered point by point to your every step and still do it here too...
a compressor (15 liters) with pressure at 6 bar will appear your rubber in 3 minutes....
a compressor 30 litres with pressure at 6 bar gonfier? anyway, your rubber in 3 minutes...
but it surely will happen? the compressor (15 liters) at a certain point the avr? out of his "stock" of air and pressure, and you find yourself with a rubber half-deflated..
while the 30-not only will you inflate the tire, but it still retains a large degree of pressure and flow...
so which of the two compressors you could buy??

[tidus1985]

munro special you are, I am not a mechanic, and then reason with the things that I know, of course, all the laws that I have mentioned them I don't know, but my limit and see the intake duct as a thing to give pressure, because I think turbine is large or small, if the pressure ? that the air that sara, I think like if the nozzle were the valves, but on vacation the nozzle ? the turbine, I have to put it in the head, you are really better than a professor, but this concept I well understand it, because I, in my way of thinking I always see a suction line that " if c'? that pressure ? why ? was created by tot air", and then, omitting the performance of the trubocompressore if I have 1.5 bar with a turbine with firante 60mm or 40mm should be the same thing, always leaving out the speech of returns, let's say, to understand, or even omitting the speech cmonuque not ? so?

[tidus1985]

for compressors scegliwerei to 30 litres anyway, that would be a gt2256v if I had to choose between this and the gt1749v right?

[SandroMarciano]

sorry for the absence, but are and will be? a bit busy this month, in the meantime, I try to make my...

for compressors scegliwerei to 30 litres anyway, that would be a gt2256v if I had to choose between this and the gt1749v right?

yes, the 2256 allows you to have more? flow of air in parit? pressure, and also having the impeller and the spiral pi? great you allow him? to achieve pressures much higher (due to chocking that the reach with higher flows), at the moment, I ride with these: 2600*2000rpm, 2900*3000, 2650*4000 2550*4500

The comparison of the rubber caps with the finger, it seems to me a simplification too coarse, since it goes from a compressible fluid to a non-compressible.
Add to deepening that the total pressure ? data from a static part and a dynamic part, when munro speaks of the rubber in which the water flows, the total pressure will be? X=p0+pc where p0 ? the static one and pc dynamic. In the moment that you enter the finger and create the obstruction, the total pressure will be? always X, but the kinetic part of the pressure caler?, by increasing the static one. A sensor pressure generic measure the static pressure, and ? for this, cut off the rubber causes an increase in the pressure measured by the instrument (but not the total that will stay? unchanged).

the speech that a turbine to 1.5 (we put the 1749v) to ensure a flow of air which is smaller than a pi? great (2256) you explain why? the first must? do ir? laps to do it, then caler? the performance and, consequently, will increase? the temperature, which in turn renders? the air less dense.

Last thing, I left with the speech of the choke, not to make controversy with munro that I think is very competent, but just for clarity, the full speech. Tuesday? I exchanged 2 words with the professor of turbomachinery and explained to me that the concept of choking ? the same is in the turbine is in the compressor, with a few differences:
1. such a low number of revolutions of the compressor can? be due to an excessive incidence, which is not the case in the turbine;
2. in the turbine generally has choking in the stator, which therefore does not entail risks for the group, even if you must? however, keep an eye on the thermometer of the EGT.

For the rest, I confirmed that the phenomenon has when it reaches the speed? sonic in the section to the minimum area, which is the maximum limit of the range (see Hugoniot).

[tidus1985]

sandro, question but do you have mounted on the 8v or 16v? how have you adapted? both oil pipes that flanges exhaust/downpipe? to me ? arrived today, and I have already shot about 30? the nut intake because it is L with respect to the exhaust manifold on the original 1749

[SandroMarciano]

sandro, question but do you have mounted on the 8v or 16v? how have you adapted? both oil pipes that flanges exhaust/downpipe? to me ? arrived today, and I have already shot about 30? the nut intake because it is L with respect to the exhaust manifold on the original 1749

I have the version that mounts the 156 2,4 150 hp.
mounted on the jtd 8v, the job of the arrangement not ? one thing from a day of work and I just... I did do, and in practice on the discharge side I mounted all piping 2.4 that ? was adapted as the length and then created a flange to support the little tubes and the turbine and not rely on com?letamente pipes... the pipe is the oil delivery and was bought new from who has it mounted. I rebuilt the flanges and joined with a bridging silicon which, unfortunately, loses a few drops, the point of return in the cup ? been moved. the suction side of the re-create the curve that precedes it in stainless steel and then raccprdatp with a bridging silicon. The turbine ? been screwed to the manifold by means of a flange 2.5 cm to move it, and allow a perfect anchorage.

[munro]

those engines the oil return turbo not c'? have it in the cup but on the engine block.....
if you do not put the flange 2.5 cm between the manifold and turbo the original tube, which among other things ? stainless steel but flexible was perfectly in its place.....
when I fit some of the turbine on the collectors of the 8-16v with anything else I do I change the exhaust manifold the same by cutting the flange attack turbo on the collectors and risaldando that of the collector ori from where I take the crowd is more big....
I hope you have understood....
however, the last work of adjustment that I made was on a Golf V tdi 105cv....
the manifold and turbo on the car in question are in a unique fusion I took a manifold of a passat 130 tdi to burglary and one or welded,with specific electrodes, the turbo flange to mount the gtb1752vk of the audi A6 2.7 v6 tdi.....
a lot of work ? was to modify the geometry of the turbine itself....since the gtb is equipped by an electric actuator, and I have adopted an actuator, "depression"..the problem big ? that the two actuators work in fullscreen? diametrically opposite....in practice, if the wastegate pull the entire geometry of the palette is open, and vice versa close...a slaughterhouse...
and by mounting the wastegate to make it work in the right position touched on the driveshaft....
so I had to invent a system of referrals and brackets to position the wastegate in a position where you d? bother anything, but at the same time to make it work properly....