hi to all .. known presence of this sound coming from the turbine with the engine at 700 rpm, not touching the accelerator..
the car has no dpf egr , exclusion from the map correctly made . Turbine new original gtb 2056v ,2 weeks of life.
From the first day after the installation I had always heard this strange sound , the file attachment is playable with VLC media player or similar .. recorded with mobile phone . thanks
The turbine and regenerated? May be the impeller deformed
1: no , not remanufactured , and new warranty
2:you would do first if they haven't been able to hear the file before posting ..
Are with a cell phone...I will warm up
the hand on the turbo is up to scratch? I mean the pressure gauge...
He has me ? success with a new turbine that is mounted sibillava to low....removed and returned back to replace another all ok
I have to say that I have not heard the file, why? I don't yet have permission to download the file, but if you can't describe, maybe you can? understand more?
But the car goes well, I intend to performance?
the reason for that ? changed what??
S? nothing strange about that ? happened to m? to replace with new and then hear the hiss, to tell the truth on those audited for?.
yes , the prex of the turbo, and 0
ah .. I forgot .. with the dpf did not feel the sibillo glue turbine old
with the turbo that I have taken 2 weeks ago, sibillo, and is much more pronounced and noticeable, and then x all those that are not able to hear the file : the sibillo is not constant as the noise , salt and then falls to the tone of the sound , as if singing .. or even better : change the frequency .. as if it was going from the note 'do' to 'I' and then back .. may be manifold, clogged drain, or laundry? also xke' this hiss then full pull becomes a whistle powerful, especially after the 3 thousand rpm as if there is a false air or cmq problems with depression .. not sure the circuit of the strokes in the prex xke' of pressure is 1.5 bar.. if it should be broken a sleeve or creppato the intercooler does not end up on prex.. so I have to say it is a problem with the exhaust ..
It is possible that the prekat face this mess ? being broken and stuff like that..
I want to glue the map pulled 240 hp, whistles much earlier and much more to ****the volume
Not to mention the smoke that is ...
P. s egr capped and excluded from the ecu , not dpf +map is the original ( as a power) is pulled , intake manifold clean , the swirl I left intact
Could be a valve game half-broken/detached that is the whistle? also xke' the whistle you hear right next to the passenger compartment of the car .. not that you do below , but close to the wiper..
Strange, but have you seen if, by chance ? the exhaust manifold that vents?
In these cars ? metal andif the manifold ? the deformed vibration of the gasket that you put in "play"
I.. by removing the dpf... I started to hear a slight whistle in the starting.. (not the minimum), we say from 1000 to 1500 rpm..
then when I put the flange to the egr noise and increased...
from the way you describe the noise (near the cockpit) would seem to be the egr or intake manifold spouting... (I've heard the audio.. but you don't know where it comes from)
I have already read in the internet.. people with prisoners of egr sfilettati... and vents in that area... even a friend of mine.. and found the inlet manifold "melted" i.e. it was cracked... it's talking about the plastic version but'..
I happened to some of the car with studs exhaust manifold broken and cars with studs egr sfilettati, as shown above. I would check these two things, and then maybe check the turbine.
PS: the plastic manifolds usually melt where air enters the egr, especially if the car works a lot at low speeds.
yes , this to me is doing it , sibillo of the turbo to the starting point in that range of rpm that you have indicated you , then when it goes up to 0.4 bar this sibillo disappearsQuote:
Originally Written by david
it is then to minimize this sibillo remains perceptible , that is, you feel it without touching the gas and yet, as I have already said before the sound goes up and down as if the arivasse air periods to the turbine.. as if I tocassi the accelerator by increasing the rpm of the engine.. then the vanes of the turbo around more and then less .. and the fact that I don't touch anything ..
In the audio that I left at the first post you know very well how to change the frequency of the sound to a minimum without reason ..
Perhaps you are rodando the turbo ? has less than 200 km of life and the respect and' new neck receipt ~1350 euro warranty garett , I have all the bills so it's all official .. I don't think that the mechanic has given me a turbo regenerated facendomela pay as if it were new to pat
I see that you also have the brera 2.4 , I wanted to ask if you the arrow on the gauge makes the shots .. I x example by accelerating the plan in the third climb, the pressure rises to 1.3 bar with the throttle to 40% and then I go to 0.8 bar, and I hear a click . as if I had turned off and rejoin the engine .. then it loses all power, and then resume it .. and everything is done in a half a second .. it is bit annoying that shot .. could it be the pressure sensor ? with the dpf attacked me this joke
And then exceeding 3500 rpm the pressure drops from 1.5 to 1.2 and no more .. And it is here that he begins to lose air pressure
Can you describe the behavior of your turbine? as the pressure to 2500 , 3000 , 3500 , 4000, 4500, 5000 rounds ? on the test my makes 220 hp and 520 nm at 2900 rpm and then drops bad once you pass the 3000 rpm and all this with an incredible smoke; hence it :) the same map on a spider does get to 246 hp with the same torque
and then the horses exploits them after 3500 rpm .. not cm my after 3000 rpm it loses all power
I have a 159 1.9 q tronic..
according to me... do you have any tube cracked.. that goes to the pump.. or even to the geometry...
otherwise.. could it be that you are the type of valve with 2 tubes that makes work the turbo.. (I know that I explained bad..)
practically.. if you take away the hoist covers.. you have the pump.. that makes work the brake booster...
always from that pump.. a tube of black... it will be 4 or 5 mm that goes to the pieburg (when you open the hood.. you see.. it is a kind of valve, black) maybe it is just him..
to try... off the tube with a black.. that goes to the turbo... (so the geometry should be completely at rest.. and not blow the whistle) I would not like to be spoiled and go air into depression.. even when I should not.. and still does work evil in the geometry.. giving you those defects (the shot)
I hope you figure out what piece I speak.. even if I attach the pictures.. you are not allowed to see it (for now)
and he's the one who manages the geometry...
however to me... the turbine.. from the peak (e.g.: 1.6 and then decreases and stabilizes at the bottom... it's normal... the shot.. no)
about the smoke.. and power.. everything is on the map... and every car reacts differently.. to the loaded map.. you can expect the same changes give the same results..
the black smoke.. can depend on.. too much fuel.. or the little air... (see if you can really solve the management of the turbo) and then see..
if you upload the map on the forum.. you can say.. if the map is good... or if she is the cause of the smoke...
another thing... since you just changed the turbo... and on the jtdm and really hard to break them.. (mine has all the active 130.000 km) can be really a problem of the map that you caused the break-up...
do the test of the pieburg.. and see if systems the whistle.... change the part to you if you and him... and made to look at the map here on the forum... and you will see that solve everything..
Hi david, just watch : I found the piece that you mean .. I have disconnected the hose that goes to the intake manifold , almost one in depression ( sucks air from the tube) I pulled the engine to access and immediately disappeared the sibillo ( the one that changed the frequency ) and immediately started a sound hmmm... how do I explain .. type v8 gas naturally aspirated .. roar despicable ( the same thing happened when I was with the sensor prex detached) .. The car has no more than 50 hp.. not to be in recovery ( with the sensor prex detached went into recovery and did not whistle, nothing .. the turbine rises to 0.3 bar to 4000 rpm .. , 0 smoke
Now the turbo goes without geometry .. blow the whistle does not make it more' xke' don't pressure .. What have we solved ? :) you say you change the converter pressure (pieburg)?
I noticed the presence of oil on the intake manifold ... side egr .. me and it seemed very clean and warm .. then cool , without fulligine and dust ..
Now I try to disconnect quel another tube that goes to the turbo .. and see what happens..however I don't think that changes anything since they are connected on the inside of the converter
bhe' watch.. I sucked air with the mouth of the tube that goes to the turbo and I was sibillare .. then when rilasciavo the air turning off when scrolling the geometry .. so I would say that the pipes are not creppati .. could be just the drive itself back on the pressure .. ( my guess)
I'll give you another question.. But if the geometry should be checked through that tube.. what is the use of the wastegate..? only to throw the air that is not needed ( release the accelerator after a tirade with the following 'tiutiutiu'?) My mechanic told me that the geometry is controlled by the wastegate valve.. wrong qlcosa? :)
you have found the culprit of it all..!!
both stroke and at the time of release.. that whistle to a minimum.. you have to change that black piece with the tubes (I don't know the exact name) but I think it's called pieburg.. and you will see that solve both to a minimum... and run... it should be around 60 euros... !!
regarding the components of the turbo.. I don't know to explain it... wait that meets someone on the forum.... and I repeat... I advise you to view the map here on the forum.. (for the ecessivo smoke)
but the machine is also remapped next to have the dpf off and the egr off?
Ok , then I as soon as the replacement of this converter... once changed to let you knowQuote:
Originally Written by david
Hello msport, The machine currently has the map that makes smoking so much because it studied evil .. But with the map that I've sold you, then the original power + no egr no dpf , smokes the same , a little less... And maybe' that in order to understand the origin of the whistle I put the map pull ... more horses put more whistles .. so I make less effort to locate the place from which blows..Quote:
Originally Written by msport (exil77grande)
That device ? a eletrovalvola that regulates the depression before you change it check the other tube ? one that brings the depression that is not cracked
Does the shot in the release .. At the time of release of the accelerator feels the effect of the valve blow off that throws out air that is not needed any more , and The stroke is in acceleration .. The pressure gauge rises to 1.2 then 1,3 1,4 then snaps to 0.8 ( hit) and then rises and remains fixed in 1.2, always with the throttle to 40% , while if the thrust of the whole not feel the shot ... salt 1.5 x then stay there until I don't pass the ~3000 rpm when it starts to whistle and lose the pressure going from 1.5 to 1.3 bar.Quote:
Originally Written by david
sorry you have changed the system with a valve blow off pop off)
if that is original and we do not have it.. and we didn't even have the wastgate... for that what do I know...
we have the variable geometry... and the excess pressure is discharged from the egr...
I assume that the egr is excluded from the map.. you have mounted a flange fully closed?
regarding the behavior of the turbo.. before you change the solenoid valve... pieburg.. or how you call it.. :) and then see how it behaves... is working on the geometry.. and you have problems just on that.. then again.. post the map.. maybe you have a problem with the management of an overboost...
What a mess... I have done research on ****** about the wastegate on the 2.4 jtdm and I was not able to understand whether or not there is
When I accelerate in first getting the prex to 1.5 and then instantly remove your foot from the gas, I feel the effect of the blow off valve ( I) the typical tiutiu that you hear on the turbo petrol .. Before I had a alfa gt 1.9 and did the same thing ..
Anyway, the egr is plugged with a non-perforated plate and excluded from the ecu
now I understand..
it's a noise kind of "absorption" is also my... and normal... with the flange and is more accentuated with the dpf.. it was non-existent this noise..
replace the pieburg... and see if it disappears this whistle dancer to a minimum.. and this strange behavior of the hand..
it is a solenoid valve, pneumatic (more or less.. the correct term I)
by exploiting the depression to move the polmoncino close to the turbine.. and adjusts the variable geometry...
my full throttle.. salt to 1.6 (hypothetical), then down to 1.4 fixed..
while in meta, gas.. as you say... salt type.. to 1.2 and then stabilize to 0.8 with less pressure on the pedal to 0.4...
then... the defect.. turbo.. it just makes the map "spider" or even with the ori?..
if they do not, with the ori... and a problem of the map.. however I am dell idea.. that the pieburg is to change.. and in addition to the whistle dancer.. you bust the operation of the geometry..
Hello, since doing the tests look at the values of a solenoid valve of the variable geometry Pierburg
Power supply: 12 volt on the way 2 of the connector.
Resistance on the terminals of the solenoid valve): 16 Ω, and obviously, as a gi? said tubes
it takes a diagnosis of a stroke, maximum pressure? some remanufactured make these whistles and I have seen them go up to the machine ? way to collapse....
diagnosis with fiat ecu scan if possible with values of turbo pressure measured and request, % valve geometry, rotational speed and quantity of fuel required, so let's see if cmq works well, however it seems the classic sound of the tree that is cavitation on the bushings in the dive in oil, but hopefully not so otherwise ?would already oil
The modern turbo diesel turbines have variable geometry, and do not have the waste gate, followed by a brief explanation.
Variable geometry turbocharger
Conceptually identical to the turbocharger, the difference pi? great from this ? inherent in the impeller to the engine exhaust. In fact, it ? surrounded by vanes in which the movement, controlled by the electronic controller determines the variation of the angle of incidence of the exhaust gas with the vanes of the impeller for driving the same. In function of the rotation speed, these are open or closed to facilitate the speed? or, the flow to the second of the schemes themselves. There? leads to greater flexibility? and adaptability? with respect to the "Turbo" a nut fixed: a variable turbine geometry allows to obtain the same low inertia of a turbine of small size and the flow rate of air (and therefore power) of a turbine of a larger size. The field of application of the pi? the vast ? one of the Diesel high-pressure injection such as Common Rail and the injector pump.
Wastegate
In the turbocharged internal combustion engine, the wastegate ? a valve of maximum pressure used for the control of the operating conditions of the turbine driven by exhaust gas.
Use
In the case where the accelerator was always held down, the speed? of the turbine would increase leading, consequently, to an increase of the turbocharging pressure that, above a certain ****lli, and could jeopardize the integrity? some of the components of the engine. To check the continuation of this vicious circle is precisely used a valve, called the wastegate, that opens above a certain pressure allowing a part of exhaust gas to bypass the turbine and flow towards the outside. This implies a decrease of the speed? of rotation of the impeller and, consequently, a reduction of the turbocharger. There is also a blockage of this valve. In the strong acceleration you will enter the"an overboost". This function blocks the wastegate for a few seconds so that the engine can have all the air pumped by the turbine. In the past this was regulated by a timer now ? regulated by an electronic control unit (or ECU).
Operation
The action of this valve, positioned in the exhaust manifold (on the side of the turbine), ? proportional to the boost pressure (the compressor side) is open.
The action of the wastegate is to prevent the charging system from being stressed excessively, while maintaining the speed? rotation of the turbine within certain limits, by limiting the boost pressure maximum.
In the case of wastegate pneumatic tube applied on the compressor side actuates the wastegate valve. Exceeded the limit of danger, and the internal pressure from the compressor side overcomes the resistance of the valve spring and causes the opening. In this way, part of the exhaust gas is ducted to the outside, bypassing the turbine, which decelerates along with the compressor, thereby avoiding an excessive boost pressure. There? is because both the turbine and the compressor are placed on the same shaft; the rotation speed of both ? then identical. By decreasing the amount? of the exhaust gas which strikes the turbine reduces the wind speed? rotation of the turbine and of the compressor, and therefore the supply pressure.
In cars, the new concept of the wastegate ? instead controlled electrically by the ECU.
..***** and school Excellent explanation...but the man of the whistle where ? finished???Quote:
Originally Written by siggey
Sar? whistled via......
Here I am .. sorry for the delay in reply ..
The whistle after 4 months that I have it and no one here in the area was not able to fix it I came to understand the provinienza of the latter..
It comes from the exhaust manifold .. that is the gasket between the manifold and the turbo, or the captives of the broken or cracked that connect the manifold to the cylinder head .. if not sbalgio there are 10 , 2 for each cylinder ( 1 above and 1 below).
Can't it be the other by following the simple logic : in full accelerazzione the pressure rises to 1.5 in the range 1400-4300 rpm is still there ..
But the air flow rate (pressure) request after 3 thousand rpm and more than 1.5 bar . glue the map that there is expected to grow to 1.7 -1.8 .. Instead of all this mass of air that is released from the valves to the turbine is dispersed without get there.. obviously not making it turn more .. qnd always remains at 1.5 bar .. Saw that in this regime the geometry opens up the entire flow of the air ignited goes directly to influence the impeller .. ( seen that at low rpm the pressure is obtained thanks to the geometry almost closed)
And then the fact that in the full pull with the presence of the whistle I can smell the fuel in the passenger compartment
Then : this smoke is the result of the false air , that is, one that comes from the valves of the motor is NOT coming to the turbine.. And it is precisely here that blows..
The problem in theory is solved by myself hehe :)
Also xke can't it be the other !
If it were a sleeve broken not saliva never to 1.5 bar..and then, over time, you would be completely broken ( if the hole or crack was small)
Here, however, the whistle will never change .. even if the past 10 thousand km!
For when about sound dancer to a minimum and the pierburg - In comparison , the tubing out from the converter pressure ( pierburg) what not it goes to the turbine , but round that goes inside the intake manifold x then end up in the decompressor...
Thanks to all of you !
Hi there we had heard via **** for the problem if you remember at the time I told that could easily be the exhaust manifolds that were inbarcati even before that I would change the turbo. Know anyway ? a lot of work to do the seal of the manifolds. Strange anyway that sost the turbo have not disassembled the manifolds ???Quote:
Originally Written by sighline
hehe hello dear , of course I remember you :) removing the turbo have only detached from the manifold.. leaving intact then the side of the head (the part with the prisoners)Quote:
Originally Written by thekid
If you have the collectors to bleed, you should find the nuts on the studs lenses, or how can I ? happened several times even someone ? broken in the head, and then not tightening the manifold to the cylinder head, and may bleed and blow the whistle, even if you should hear it at high revs and not to low.
The vent of the tube ? normal... don't worry about that, in case you do not close the geometry and the car is to low it should be like the na One diesel...
if the prisoners of the manifolds are broken ? also need to clear the manifold as baggage.
This work I did on a brera always 2.4 little more? a year f
Will update : I was wrong to the high regard that the exhaust manifold.. Yesterday I removed the cover, turbine, and I saw that all 10 of the prisoners are in place.. asciuti .. no trace of oil or soot
to better understand the situation I studied the map, limiting the turbo pressure and by changing the opening of the geometry
1a test (turbo limited to 1 bar ): no whistle at full throttle is to low to 5000 rpm
2nd test (no limit, but the opening of the geometry set is not in proportion to the pressure required) then I did the changes in full acceleration from 1.5 bar drops to 1.3 and then it goes back to 1.5x then back down to 1.3 and I noticed that the whistle has become periodic , then whistled only when he went up the gauge
in this way, I realized that the whistle is nothing other than the turbine or sleeves
It could also be the bypass valve that is malfunctioning and/or an overboost valve ( also called a converter pressure )
Since this forum is dedicated to ecu tuning, and then my problem does not fall under any of these sections,I tried to ask for help on the 159owners and I've been sent away after the first message on this forum seen their regulation that prevents participate on the forum if one has the machine and/or units changed ( that*******!!!)
Today I' got the pipe downpipe bought it on ebay ( to put in the place of the prekat) on Monday I'm going to mount it and then you will see if it is the prekat whistling :)
according to me ... this whistle that you hear ? normal... my golf 4 gti 150cv he began to do after that I deleted the egr...
I took off completely the catalyst to my old golf 4 and beginning to whistle enormously, but I had more extension on the road, so according to me and a question of the exhaust...
unfortunately for sighline that whistle of his car ? for anything normal.....
that car,and they know that in a few,in the fitting that carries the lubrication to the turbo port, a filter, so as to prevent the turbine to arrive debris or anything else....now, since not the s? almost none of the presence of this filter many mechanics are equipped with the above-mentioned fitting without check if the filter inside, affixed or less.....
then probably the connection-the filter of the car sighline sar? already the middle clogged and the crowd gets a little olive oil and then the turbo blows that way because l? starved of lubrication, right....
the problem is now ? changing in said fitting now the omelette ? made...
the cio? the bushings and shims bronze or better bearings seen that ? a gtb inside the turbo are now parties then the problem is not solved...if not changing the turbo....
anyway, I hope that I am wrong...because from what I understand the crowd ? warranty....but in cases like this,the incompetence of the assembly,the same does not guarantee the replacement.....
munro, but the filter ? inside the pipe or in the first step of the one-piece?
I rest the idea he there or to the manifold which is deformed or muffler saw that smell of diesel in the cabin. The fact that it is dry does not mean anything, you have to see if and clean or dirty...
The filter is located in the fitting that connects the hose to the engine block.
I for prevention every time that I have to disassemble some of these the remove always, by fitting a simple fitting diesel with holes larger scope unlimited. In this case, the lubrication ? assured, and certainly that type of problem is not the avr? pi?. Although lately I've been unfortunate in a connection like ? finished a piece of motorsil left in the engine from somewhere? those who which to me anyway is quite fitting and ruined na turbine of a 147 140cv.