Maps Lambda EDC16

if there is someone who chews the bread and Funktionsrahmen, I would explain why in EDC16 (I mean fiat/alfa etc), are values of lambda at high IQ who come to 1.1 (some even 1.03), which would mean then AFR of 15.5, while in the EDC15 on the smoke map were APPROXIMATELY around 70mm to 1000 mg of air, which if we convert in mg leaves approximately 17.5:1 as the AFR?

I from what I understand the values of the maps the lambda are calculated as the ratio of mg of air in mm of diesel fuel (wrongly) for this to come out AFR falsely low.
however, it seems to me an error so gross, do not consider the variation of density of diesel fuel compared to the temp folder, which I cannot explain.

has anyone ever put a nice wideband to see if they match?

Graaazie

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Originally Written by lsdlsd88

ABOUT around 70mm to 1000 mg of air, which if we convert in mg leaves approximately 17.5:1 as the AFR?

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EDIT: for the accuracy 70.47 on 1050 (I'm looking at a 147 1.9..)

if you see a file of a 159 2.4 values of gold under 0.8

Well, but not in the area of IQ maximum I hope? in some areas there is to take into account also the EGR I know...

1050 mg air - 3750 rpm

I believe that in order to do a work up once you have completed the map, and unlocks the lim iq to the desired value, you need to do the log with the map lambda all to 1 and correct then according to the values of the beds in the areas with too much or not enough iq

Mah, if the parts to be 0.8 it seems to me absurd to put it at 1. unless you discover that with the map lambda ori SMOKES (I doubt).

it is also true that the map ori probably has the IQ were limited by other parts and then maybe you do not often be limited by the lambda.

Beautiful strange, however, is what!

The main difference lies in the way of how to work with the ECU..
In edc15 all the calculation algorithm and as a function of the amount of diesel then the map smoke and seal in the primary consideration..
In edc16 the processor based all the calculations in a function of torque..
The maps lambda are simulated and taken into calculation by the processor for the most part for a matter relating to anti-pollution devices..
In fact, when you delete the maf on these the ecu the processor continues to work, based on other maps..

.... without the maf it will work in speed density I guess? but this was not my question XD

what I don't understand is why not "come back" the accounts between the air and the diesel, there are other parameters that the ecu applies to the values that is written in the maps lambda according to you?

for the stoichiometric ratio, you should use the weight of the air and the weight of the fuel, not the volume. To ****s chemistry is so then that calculations to do the ecu I don't know

you have to see when it reads the value of afr, it will surely be blocked by some limiter. With 0.8, the dpf does not like so much

But there are also limiters lambda on edc16, on average, the high and fixed to the lambda of 1.25 to a low of 0.6..
As far as the calculation can not calculate "apples and pears"
The calculation is done in one unit of measure.. also calculates that the equivalence ratio of diesel in the edc16 and fixed 0,835 but there are maps that vary the amount of fuel as a function of the temperature of the same..
Some are limiting as that is classic for the only iq are compensation to vary the temperature of diesel..

I forgot that the same principle applies to the air to be sucked in that tablet..
He also wrote in the other post that are lambda simulate the ecu does not work in afr function in the strict sense of the term pair-quantity of diesel to the lambda are Of the maps of limitation-fix..

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Originally Written by munro

But there are also limiters lambda on edc16, on average, the high and fixed to the lambda of 1.25 to a low of 0.6..

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Perfect, then, however, the values that are normally found in the map are inside this limitation.
from the comment of the overbooster, I thought he meant that "reality" low ones, would not have been actually used.

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Originally Written by munro

but there are maps that vary the amount of fuel as a function of the temperature of the same..
Some are limiting as that is classic for the only iq are compensation to vary the temperature of diesel..

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behold, these I just found, but if you say that there are, I trust, and I try best!

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Originally Written by munro

]
He also wrote in the other post that are lambda simulate the ecu does not work in afr function in the strict sense of the term pair-quantity of diesel to the lambda are Of the maps of limitation-fix..

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this has left me puzzled.
you may link to "post" you speak of?
the ecu to limit always refers to the couple is a fact, but I don't understand what you mean by "limitation-fix".
by the way I happen I do exactly the same function of the old maps fumes.
if you lower all the values to the flue gas, if we lift not will never be more than a TOT.

I thank you for the answers.

I talked about it here..

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Originally Written by munro

The main difference lies in the way of how to work with the ECU..
In edc15 all the calculation algorithm and as a function of the amount of diesel then the map smoke and seal in the primary consideration..
In edc16 the processor based all the calculations in a function of torque..
The maps lambda are simulated and taken into calculation by the processor for the most part for a matter relating to anti-pollution devices..
In fact, when you delete the maf on these the ecu the processor continues to work, based on other maps..

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What you say about lambda edc16, and this is just part of the amount of fuel injection of the final in these ecu and extrapolated crude from the map nm-iq, and subsequently "clean" from the map, lambda, and various limiters are scattered in the eprom after that, the ecu knows how long to hold open the injectors to inject X fuel

I know that we speak 2 different languages.

From a former student of Computer science and Engineering, to hear talk of "crude" and "clean" in a microprocessor makes me cringe.

the ecu works with logic, formulas and numbers, accurate at least up to the third decimal place XD

The options are 2, you'll forgive me the bluntness, but are done so:
1) you have the ideas a little confused
2) don't want to say too much because we are in the section of those who should not know anything.

prepondo for the second.
I wish so much that to intervene in someone else's right to give their opinion, not because I do not trust your answers, only that they seem to me, at least, vague.

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Originally Written by lsdlsd88

prepondo for the second.

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seh yeah right 'night... I am inclined!

I enclose some screenshots, let me know if you clears your head, or if it confuses you even more...

the logical proof, and the practice is to make a map with the lambda ori and a moddate and log the quantity of air vs Iq.
better post screen of the maps so we relate better, where to find l afr so low and make 2 logs on the road and see if they match.
you can request 500 nm of torque and then 100 mm3 of fuel (edc16c39 150hp) but you can get it with 1200 mg or 1400 mg of air always depends on the lambda.
x the conversation of the limiters that mean I can set up a afr of 14.5, but if you're struck by the surge does not reach a certain IQ, then that value in the map is a little ridiculous if you do not take action on the other.

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Originally Written by munro

What you say about lambda edc16, and this is just part of the amount of fuel injection of the final in these ecu and extrapolated crude from the map nm-iq, and subsequently "clean" from the map, lambda, and various limiters are scattered in the eprom after that, the ecu knows how long to hold open the injectors to inject X fuel

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I try to have my say to see if I have understood the concept. Let's say that you want to have a torque of 400 Nm at 4000 rpm then the map nm-iq revenue the value 83,70 then for a given extrapolated in the rough you want to own this 83,70 mm3 of diesel oil, then clean from the map lambda I want to say that I must search in the map the lambda to the corresponding value for 4000 rpm crossed with the amount of air, because the table stops at 1050,0 and 3750 and it is likely that at 4000 rpm the air intake is already more than 1,05 gr, let's say for example 1,15, the value, however, is that given by that intersection is the last one available and then 1,13. Then I convert the 83,70 mm3 in weight by multiplying by 0,835, and then 69,8895 mg and comparing them with the available air. In the example, 1150 mg of air according to the map the lambda would be sufficient to 1150/(14,7*1,13)=69,23 mg of diesel, so I have to "clean" the 69,8895 and reduce it to 69,23 because the map lamdba me limited to that value.

*lsd88
I understand that you're a little too tied to the concept of a lambda of the gas that would translate on the diesel.. I hope you will understand a poor confused like me..but:
1) the diesel can work with afr Of 60:1 at the minimum in the maps lambda EDC16c39 you find this value?
2)if you apply a player stoichiometric on a diesel engine EDC16c39 or any other ecu you will notice that the value in the map lambda in the ECU and very far from the actual value read from the instrument because the said several times in several of my back
3)since you talk about the logic of the ecu and I am a little confused according to you, I would like to me the chiarissi this logic you have ever seen that learned something that I still don't understand.
4)with the emoticons is that soften the sense of the message and, anyway, if you want that there is more in your tread you'll settle quiet..

Quote:

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Originally Written by lsdlsd88

I know that we speak 2 different languages.

From a former student of Computer science and Engineering, to hear talk of "crude" and "clean" in a microprocessor makes me cringe.

the ecu works with logic, formulas and numbers, accurate at least up to the third decimal place XD

The options are 2, you'll forgive me the bluntness, but are done so:
1) you have the ideas a little confused
2) don't want to say too much because we are in the section of those who should not know anything.

prepondo for the second.
I wish so much that to intervene in someone else's right to give their opinion, not because I do not trust your answers, only that they seem to me, at least, vague.

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Isdisd88 you're wrong and in a big way!I don't want to defend neither the forum nor the Munro but here, there is a "section" where you know/not to know things,everything is in the light of the forum.own Munro is not the type to be "vague"....... You explained it more than once,and I realized it too! And are not graduated... ..... .. ......

It seems to me that Munro is state of clear. For raw I think that Munro intended that the calculation of the IQ still is not complete if you do not first pass through other limiters.
Among these limitations is the minimum value of lambda is allowed. Past this you additional control and definitely the other, the calculation becomes "clean" and final.
Now if you want to force to interpret the evil,instead of to thank, the one that tells you a person like Munro who has always helped me a lot in this forum do as well.
I hope I helped you.

then decide how much diesel to inject is the map limiter smoke; hence the' so called from the ecm?

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Originally Written by itama

then decide how much diesel to inject is the map limiter smoke; hence the' so called from the ecm?

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Originally Written by dragusdrake

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However, all of the maps in relief we still don't know who has the last word...that is what the ecu asks for last. If I did the test of putting all the lamda KP if these are the last to give its consent theoretically the machine should not go am I right?

someone has the damos for the 147 jtd 140 cv edc16c8?
I wanted to know if all' inside of the damos I find the value using the controller (0,8 xxx) to transform the mm2 of diesel fuel in mg.

then the formula mm2 oil*0,8 xxx= mg diesel.

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Originally Written by Errecinque

However, all of the maps in relief we still don't know who has the last word...that is what the ecu asks for last. If I did the test of putting all the lamda KP if these are the last to give its consent theoretically the machine should not go am I right?

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Will definitely better because fattening, but you know better than me that the control unit interrogates all of the maps at the same time

Quote:

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Originally Written by itama

someone has the damos for the 147 jtd 140 cv edc16c8?
I wanted to know if all' inside of the damos I find the value using the controller (0,8 xxx) to transform the mm2 of diesel fuel in mg.

then the formula mm2 oil*0,8 xxx= mg diesel.

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First of all, mm3, not mm2. According to then the edc16 do not have mg. Third, the damos are written by mortals, not by god, and mere mortals use 0,85

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Originally Written by dragusdrake

First of all, mm3, not mm2. According to then the edc16 do not have mg. Third, the damos are written by mortals, not by god, and mere mortals use 0,85

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ops please forgive me for the error mm2, but mm3,
I wanted to know if 0,85 the map is informed of that value , I ask this because around I read approsimazioni different 0,82 or 0,84 and so on
if it is informed of this value where I read it?.
I know that the values vary little but it is only curiosity.


Also I wanted to know what is the formula for determining the opening time of the injector are read in the map injection .

example in my map of the 147 jtd 16v 140 hp, I read that for injection of 60 mm3/inj with rail pressure of 1200 it takes 920 which formula is used .
thanks a lot for your interventions.

For opening the injector , what you read is the time in microseconds, no formula ... But where the laws on certain things?
In case there is a calculation for calculate the grades according to the time of opening the injectors , degrees after top dead center.

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Originally Written by dragusdrake

For opening the injector , what you read is the time in microseconds, no formula ... But where the laws on certain things?
In case there is a calculation for calculate the grades according to the time of opening the injectors , degrees after top dead center.

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I thought that the map limiter smoke; hence the' so called from the ecm was a iq limiter,
as in the map I read a maximum of 1050 mg of air/(14,7*1,08)= 1050/15,876=66,13 mg diesel fuel or 82,6 mm3 of diesel, but the maximum limit that I can use is about 70 mm3, given that the last bp of the other maps are set to 70, and then bringing ii bp of the other maps to a value of 82,6 max . I could manage 82,6 diesel fuel .

for the time in microseconds was wondering because if I go over 80, are not calculated , ask the case that I want to get to 90 mm3 lquale' at this point the formula in function of the degrees to adapt to the map phase of injection and time of injection.
could you kindly help me?

Quote:

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Originally Written by itama

I thought that the map limiter smoke; hence the' so called from the ecm was a iq limiter,
as in the map I read a maximum of 1050 mg of air/(14,7*1,08)= 1050/15,876=66,13 mg diesel fuel or 82,6 mm3 of diesel, but the maximum limit that I can use is about 70 mm3, given that the last bp of the other maps are set to 70, and then bringing ii bp of the other maps to a value of 82,6 max . I could manage 82,6 diesel fuel .

for the time in microseconds was wondering because if I go over 80, are not calculated , ask the case that I want to get to 90 mm3 lquale' at this point the formula in function of the degrees to adapt to the map phase of injection and time of injection.
could you kindly help me?

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of course you help
the map of the lambda ( which I don't remember what it's called on edc16) could be a iq limiter, certainly, on-axis has mg of air, but the mV of the probe, so I guess that we are talking about different things, the map smoke with the mg of the air is in edc15.

for the times you can interpolate the difference between 60 and 70, and makes revenue of 10 mm3 in more to make it out of the 80, if you want to go up to 90 multiply by two

Quote:

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Originally Written by itama

ops please forgive me for the error mm2, but mm3,
I wanted to know if 0,85 the map is informed of that value , I ask this because around I read approsimazioni different 0,82 or 0,84 and so on
if it is informed of this value where I read it?.
I know that the values vary little but it is only curiosity.

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To satisfy your curiosity, I will say that the diesel business is subject to a specific call EN590, among the various parameters, the specification requires that the value of the diesel fuel to be in accordance has a density of between 0,820 and 0,845 so in the calculations you may use a value within this range, since you can never know a priori the actual density of the diesel fuel that immetterai in the tank, for simplicity, we can use 0,85 much at the end of the substance changes very little. Personally I prefer to use 0,84 but it is completely irrelevant.

Quote:

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Originally Written by itama

I thought that the map limiter smoke; hence the' so called from the ecm was a iq limiter,
as in the map I read a maximum of 1050 mg of air/(14,7*1,08)= 1050/15,876=66,13 mg diesel fuel or 82,6 mm3 of diesel, but the maximum limit that I can use is about 70 mm3, given that the last bp of the other maps are set to 70, and then bringing ii bp of the other maps to a value of 82,6 max . I could manage 82,6 diesel fuel .

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In EDC16c8 there are 4 maps to the addresses 0E9B7A,0E9DBE,0EA006,0EA24A and are the maps lambda and the values contained in them are perfectly identical and in a sense are maps, relief iq as you say. Sincerely believed that the axis would contain the mg, however, is a perfect inexperienced I inquire to those who know more.
If it was, but then again if they were mg, your argument about 82,6 mm3 a row.
Those maps have on one axis the number of rounds that stops at 3750, and let's say the mg to 1050 (in lumens), but at 4000 rpm you may want to read as a mass air flow values over 1100, and then the lambda value would always 1,08 because for values out of scale, we can therefore say 4000 rpm or >1050 takes always the latest available

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Originally Written by dragusdrake

of course you help
the map of the lambda ( which I don't remember what it's called on edc16) could be a iq limiter, certainly, on-axis has mg of air, but the mV of the probe, so I guess that we are talking about different things, the map smoke with the mg of the air is in edc15.

for the times you can interpolate the difference between 60 and 70, and makes revenue of 10 mm3 in more to make it out of the 80, if you want to go up to 90 multiply by two

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errata, sorry, axis rpm, and mg, and reads the mV of the probe

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Originally Written by dragusdrake

errata, sorry, axis rpm, and mg, and reads the mV of the probe

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You are correct that I shot the ears....:-)