View The Full Version : The maximum pressure in the Rail
Hi,
the question is quite general, however,
I need to understand how a map can be pushed.
Therefore, the maximum pressure (peak) of a system CR of the second generation,
that is the one that comes to 1600 Bar, as in reality can get to get
the maximum performance, without compromising excessively the organs
stressed?
since I have noticed that in the forum the majority of users never exceed
the 80 bar, for a total of 1680.
personally, I seem to be a few but I could also be wrong.
Greetings.
Hello, I'll answer what little I know,usually it is customary to give a 4 - 4.5% increase in the rail pressure, which on balance are on the 1600 bar about 70 of 72... someone says that the systems Cr Of the second generation to be regulated also 1900 the bar but I honestly do not believe that this remains totally reliable...that's why you go to touch the other one and still have excellent results...
Have you tried it on a drive just to test to give an increase more substantial? As I have said before an increase in the order of 5% for me are a bit short because, according to me, the system in general may not have the tolerances to breakage or defect of less than at least 20% to 30%.
I asked this question because I would like to map a 535d and this should be one of the most oversized, and I wanted to try to get to 2000 bar with the car stock but not having the datasheet I do not know if the injectors can handle a lot of pressure even if at high rate and for short time.
Have you tried it on a drive just to test to give an increase more substantial? As I have said before an increase in the order of 5% for me are a bit short because, according to me, the system in general may not have the tolerances to breakage or defect of less than at least 20% to 30%.
I asked this question because I would like to map a 535d and this should be one of the most oversized, and I wanted to try to get to 2000 bar with the car stock but not having the datasheet I do not know if the injectors can handle a lot of pressure even if at high rate and for short time.
With a pressure of 1700bar on the rail, you can arrive safely to 100mm3 of inj and something more.. then increase that pressure on the flute, you'll ensure the full efficiency of the diesel inside of the flute and at the request of inj but overcome the 1900bar is at risk.. the seals will not be held never at a higher pressure.. at least paro ldi pumps rail generic.. making them to change you can get higher pressures but I always advise to put more (I, for example, on the 147 1,9 I mounted one of the lybra 2.4) you can also fine tuning you can get higher pressures with zero risk!
So for curiosity with these pressures that you have given, how much you are able to increase the time? Because doing a quick calculation if I wanted to put the pressure to 1700 I should increase times of 400 Μsec in spite of 100 to 2000 bar.
So for curiosity with these pressures that you have given, how much you are able to increase the time? Because doing a quick calculation if I wanted to put the pressure to 1700 I should increase times of 400 Μsec in spite of 100 to 2000 bar.
It always depends on how much iq you want to get.. but so-called quick-and-dirty wanting to compare the times, you certainly need to play with the down-payment and a balance on the pre-and post-so avoid going over the pms in time.
ah I forgot to say that the map is calculated for 100mm3 and with the times I was out of + 4°, which I am resizing to fit within the pms is not exceeding with the preinj
I normally increase of 80 / 100 bar and I never had any problems, I once made a 147 1.9 150 that wanted to exaggerate and I got to 1750 bar by injecting more of 120mm3, and the machine despite its 200000 km runs for more than a year without problems.
2000 bar I think that they are really too much, not only for the pump but for the entire system.
I also tried the 1750 without problems, also 1800 for now ok.
with these pressures use less advance. I speak of jtdm16v edc16c39
I did these tests because I had errors p091 092 to lower pressures,and with ste high pressure is not off.
it may be that it collapses the pressure in the rail?
the pressure in the rail should be increased with caution, the increase in pressure increases the diameter of the cone formed by the nozzle, and so the possibility provided for remote low increments of pulverize out by herom, and to ruin, if not to pierce then a piston, I where can I I prefer to have a pile of smoke and be original, on the processing spointe if not I will change the injectors, I stop to protect the engine, as a result, I have a 147 which runs from 80000km with turbo mod and various without problems
also, if you had ever opened a pump 1800/2000 bar stock you'd understand why it's not possible to keep those pressures without the risk on the pumps from 1600bar because the ducts have a width of less than half
the pressure in the rail should be increased with caution, the increase in pressure increases the diameter of the cone formed by the nozzle, and so the possibility provided for remote low increments of pulverize out by herom, and to ruin, if not to pierce then a piston, I where can I I prefer to have a pile of smoke and be original, on the processing spointe if not I will change the injectors, I stop to protect the engine, as a result, I have a 147 which runs from 80000km with turbo mod and various without problems
Hi tidus,
I have your same car, 120 hp, and I have to say that thanks to your mod I made a long study..
regarding the pump, a rail, I agree fully, and saw that the pistons ori will never give excessive pressure, you risk more than the breaking of the pump, a recovery constant.
I agree, in fact, were only proofs to those pressures, because with the map deceived me ago error rail p091 092 one thinks of the pump to the fruit, regulator drv, etc.,
with informed to 1750 all smooth. error occurs around the maximum demand at 3000 rpm with 95mm approx.
I dream of putting to 1800bar any machine, and allow it so to life.
even if abroad, on the forum, I often see that they work with ste and pressure, with down payments that are very high to stay in the TDC, already 3500giri.
I agree, in fact, were only proofs to those pressures, because with the map deceived me ago error rail p091 092 one thinks of the pump to the fruit, regulator drv, etc.,
with informed to 1750 all smooth. error occurs around the maximum demand at 3000 rpm with 95mm approx.
I dream of putting to 1800bar any machine, and allow it so to life.
even if abroad, on the forum, I often see that they work with ste and pressure, with down payments that are very high to stay in the TDC, already 3500giri.
by mounting the pumps higher, you can do it.. for example I had a cp1h3/r70/10-89s original 147 120 hp but it gave me more trouble than the other.. for the cost of the review are passed to the pump lybra 2.4 cp1h3/r80/10-89s used.. now I have no problem with anything.. I will change the pump rail up to 1750 for the test and so far no problem and I am sure that I can climb up to 1900 up to speed.
we need to see with that amount it gave you trouble.
then what is the maximum flow rate with 1600bar? 80mm3 ?
we need to see with that amount it gave you trouble.
then what is the maximum flow rate with 1600bar? 80mm3 ?
about we are on the 80mm3 to 1600bar.. the question of the pump, a rail that gave trouble was not linked only to the map-rail, giving the bar, even only by increasing the advances with the map rail ori.. while the map is totally ori no boredom..
sfatata the question that troubles the by only increasing the map rail, but even if it requires diesel fuel, the greater the file ori.
these pumps are not really optimal.. should be anyway revised sooner or later while the other did not review and has 200000km and it goes to a sliver!
I hope the servants to someone that information, at least not out crazy to understand how and why
The pump has a pressure regulator, by increasing the rail ca in recovery because even if the quantity and the same decreases the efficiency of the pump, without raising the rail goes into recovery when increases only tinj because it lacks proprip flow, and then drops the pressure to voltage drop and breaks, are die reasons. Usually up to 76mm3 the pumps hold up and the fiat goes well because from stock, even the 150hp li injects
The pump has a pressure regulator, by increasing the rail ca in recovery because even if the quantity and the same decreases the efficiency of the pump, without raising the rail goes into recovery when increases only tinj because it lacks proprip flow, and then drops the pressure to voltage drop and breaks, are die reasons. Usually up to 76mm3 the pumps hold up and the fiat goes well because from stock, even the 150hp li injects
Well, of course not by changing the map-rail, and then the pressure, making requests iq more it just goes to empty the flute and the recovery is inevitable.
All clear.. I have a question.. rigiardo to the flow rate. If 80mm3 at 1600 we are almost at the limit. So how does l euro3 jtd 150hp with 1400bar base to 200cv. Has the.pump more small.
All clear.. I have a question.. rigiardo to the flow rate. If 80mm3 at 1600 we are almost at the limit. So how does l euro3 jtd 150hp with 1400bar base to 200cv. Has the.pump more small.
The capacity of the injectors, and maybe is larger and has a longer time.. I Think.. So the more payments pressures, say, standard on the pump side of the rail.
The 120 hp has a 400cc so if 150cv has more, I assume that my assertion is correct, but only by mapping deceived.
However, to find out how much you can raise the pressure is not sufficient to know the limit of the sensor?
does anyone know how get the sensor for my car? it seems to me get to 1800.
If in the event the value is 1800, and I set the rail pressure accurate to 1800
go into recovery?
the 1800 can do with peak pressure. if you want to try and put 1750 the press, and all the bits and limiters rail to 1800 or more and test.
but then monitors the actual pressure and objective with a diagnosis and understand.
Wait what I wanted to know was the l physical limit of the sensor and to the speech of the peaks we had thought too, but for your experience of how many bars can vary the rail?
Wait what I wanted to know was the l physical limit of the sensor and to the speech of the peaks we had thought too, but for your experience of how many bars can vary the rail?
a pump rail ORI let's say standard on a 1.9 (not higher than 150 hp, for instance) does not exceed the threshold of stability circa 1680 and then it's all about deciding on the iq that you want.
In practice, you do not need to shoot the pressure as if I were a firefighter, you have to calculate the iq that you want to get the right calibration of rail and air and climbing arrivals to the calculated value need not always is real, and the related diagnostic tests on the road.
In regard to the question of the threshold of the sensor, if it exceeds the value of the limit of the car, you should obviously be in recovery but you have 2 possibilities:
1° find the limiter right that gives you a greater pressure, otherwise it does not arrive to the goal and take recovery always and everyway
2° to change the sensor with a resistance calcolandoti to what works and the ratio of the value of the resistor (measured in ohms) to revoke its top but in so doing send a blessing on the ratio of measurement of course.
That diagnosis used to check the iq? and the times of injection
multiecuscan is a good sw,then there are an infinite number of programs be spoilt for choice....................
Delphi for multi-brand and mes for Fiat/alfa that is better than delphi.. More easy to open and use and less trouble
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