View The Full Version : Map injection the Alfa 159 150 hp EDC19C9
Hi to all,
I am new in the world of the processing of the ecu, and saw that I manage personally the care of my car I wanted to get to know better this world.
I'm aware of a lot and I studied a little bit the engine management from the ecu.
For the time being I have modified the two maps the pedal and the various torque limiters, increased turbo pressure and slightly to the rail. I'm attaching the file so that you can give me an opinion. (because of the original clutch I didn't give much more torque at 2000rpm otherwise I fear)
The thing that I have to manage it is still the area of the injection... due to the calibration values I have not touched on, however, in the case of the injection timing, the ecu is able to manage up to 80mm3 of fuel... 80mm3 corresponds to about 400Nm, but from the map the pedal to him, I'm asking 425Nm peak... my question is: what do I have to tap to get closer to the 95mm3? Should I lengthen the map time reduce or map the pedal and increase the amount and the time to obtain the same result? To calculate the new time I'm going in proportion or is there some formula the most accurate?
Thanks a lot for the help.
I'm sorry Robertocoriglione, see that the control unit 159, and a edc16c39 and not edc19c9 still do not!!!!
I'm sorry Robertocoriglione, see that the control unit 159, and a edc16c39 and not edc19c9 still do not!!!!
You're right, I'm sorry. I made a typo. My ecu is a EDC16C9.
How can I change the title?
You're right, I'm sorry. I made a typo. My ecu is a EDC16C9.
I'm sorry... I read wrong on the software... I Confirm EDC16C39.
Thanks for reporting
Hi to all,
I am new in the world of the processing of the ecu, and saw that I manage personally the care of my car I wanted to get to know better this world.
I'm aware of a lot and I studied a little bit the engine management from the ecu.
For the time being I have modified the two maps the pedal and the various torque limiters, increased turbo pressure and slightly to the rail. I'm attaching the file so that you can give me an opinion. (because of the original clutch I didn't give much more torque at 2000rpm otherwise I fear)
The thing that I have to manage it is still the area of the injection... due to the calibration values I have not touched on, however, in the case of the injection timing, the ecu is able to manage up to 80mm3 of fuel... 80mm3 corresponds to about 400Nm, but from the map the pedal to him, I'm asking 425Nm peak... my question is: what do I have to tap to get closer to the 95mm3? Should I lengthen the map time reduce or map the pedal and increase the amount and the time to obtain the same result? To calculate the new time I'm going in proportion or is there some formula the most accurate?
Thanks a lot for the help.
Hello, being a newbie, I can't download and see the maps that you posted, but I would like to add some personal considerations because 95mm3 of diesel fuel on the stock engine seem to me to be excessive. I think it is possible to get to these ****lli but I think it is necessary to hand over a good part of the mechanics not just a map for instance.
First consideration
From the original the engine delivers 320 Nm at 2000 rpm and then already going a little over this value, you say
“(because of the original clutch I didn't give much more torque at 2000rpm otherwise I fear)”
So according to me you should put a limit to no more than 330Nm in the torque curve at all rpm's otherwise you put excessively pressure on the transmission.
The second consideration
“... 80mm3 corresponds to about 400Nm”
In reality, it is true that the map conversion of torque/diesel in the jtd ti from about 400 Nm to 80mm3, and indeed for the precision to 4000 rpm (the maximum speed of the jtd mounted on the 159) 80 mm3 correspond to 386,1 Nm, but these are let us say “gross”. In fact, In another discussion (that I don't remember what it was otherwise I would have put the link) the user munro (who I admire very much for his expertise) has said that there is a map that corrects this value to the internal friction of the engine which lower the value of the final pair that provides the motor. Since I am a principiantissimo in this field I am not sure which map it is but if I guessed to find it, you should then remove about the 55nm fabrication this value declined to about 330Nm.
From wikipedia
Given the torque in N·m, the angular velocity in rpm and power in watts, you have the formula:
Then in the case under discussion we have 330*2*3,14*4000/60=138230-Watt or 138,23 Kw, equal to about 188 HP.
Then already with an injection of 80mm3 of fuel you can derive a discrete power from this engine.
A proof of the reasoning, I would add that, for example, Alpha states for the 147 Ducati corse is a power 170Cv at 3750 rpm.
The limiter of torque at 3750 rpm for this engine is set up the map to 375 Nm. If indeed we remove the 55nm fabrication for the friction, we have a pair of 320 Nm and by applying the formula 320*2*3,14*3750/60=125664 W equal to 125,664 Kw or 170 HP. Then I would say we're pretty. (To switch from Kw to Hp multiply by 1,36)
By this reasoning, according to me, shows that 80mm3 is already the limit for this engine, leaving it stock to guarantee a reasonable reliability for the transmission.
Hello switing63, thanks for the reply.
Yes, it is true that my engine provides 320Nm of the original peak, but in the map the pedal to the original, the maximum value that the engine reaches is at 2000 rpm and the corresponding value is of 390Nm (and I increased to 400Nm). It may be that this ecu does not take account of the losses, and then compared the reported value and the actual value, there will be a gap of 70Nm?
However, reasoning about the values in the tables, at 2000 rpm, and a request to 390Nm (gross or apperenti) corresponds to an injection of about 80mm3, and through the pressure of the rail calculates the time of injection. and so far, it seems to me correct...
Now, I assume I require 420Nm (always apparent, probably), from the table on the iQ I see that I have need of 90mm3. However, I have two problems: the first, that the map of the rail pressure stops at 70mm3 and the map of the times stops 80mm3... I should make them taller, right? how?
Seeing a map that I spent a friend you note that have been incremented enough times injection to "fool" the ecu and inject more fuel than what you are believing to inject...
But I wanted to try to do a job nice and clean so that the information of the on-board computer are correct.
Hello switing63, thanks for the reply.
Yes, it is true that my engine provides 320Nm of the original peak, but in the map the pedal to the original, the maximum value that the engine reaches is at 2000 rpm and the corresponding value is of 390Nm (and I increased to 400Nm). It may be that this ecu does not take account of the losses, and then compared the reported value and the actual value, there will be a gap of 70Nm?
Hello, it is true that everything starts from the map the pedal but there are a number of steps. The ECU takes into account the losses, in fact, is set not on the 320 Nm but at a much higher value because it takes into account.
Let's see if I can explain better. At 2000 rpm, and the column to 8192 (that corresponds to 100%) opening gas pedal you have the value 3905, or 390,5 Nm of torque request . From here, the ECU goes to compare this value with the map “torque limiter”, which corresponds to 2000 rpm (I do not know the exact value because as I said I can't open your file so I put a value of one ecu that I have on hand, but just to understand the exact number is not so important, but what counts is the overall concept) 3700, then the torque request from the pedal is cut off by this limiter to the value of 370 Nm (which then sottrratti 50/55 Nm we are close to the original value of 320 Nm), and then from here you go to see the conversion table torque/diesel where it is crossed the value of 2000 rpm with 3700, and from here derives the amount of fuel in mm3) to be injected, and in this case, interpolating the values in the map are 6870 to 3500 Nm, and 8390 for 4000Nm I get to 3700, the value of 7340 i.e. 73,40 mm3. But still, this is not the true value that will be injected because there are other limiters, one for the quantity in function of the temperature of the cooling liquid, and one in relation to the temperature of the diesel fuel, then the ECU will compare this value with these other maps (and other before you even establish the quantity that is actually injected). So even if on the map the pedal I write at the place of 3905 for example, 5500 would not change anything because, as the ECU compares the value with the torque limiter always at 3700 cuts, so I have to change this and all the following in all the successive maps. For example, let's take for good the value of 73,40mm3 (and then we pretend that the successive maps do not make cuts more to this amount) as the original value of the fuel injection at 2000 rpm, and we assume that we want to bring to 80,00mm3 (about a 9% increase) then I would do the reverse path, that is, I look at how many Nm corresponds to the conversion table of torque/ diesel, the value of 8000 to 2000 rpm and I find 3954, then I will take from 3700 to 3960, the torque limiter (a little bit higher otherwise I cut the amount) and in the map the pedal enough for me to switch from 3905 to 3970 to get the injection of the quantity that I had set myself as goal.
Now, I assume I require 420Nm (always apparent, probably), from the table on the iQ I see that I have need of 90mm3. However, I have two problems: the first, that the map of the rail pressure stops at 70mm3 and the map of the times stops 80mm3... I should make them taller, right? how?
If you want to make a map in the know, yes, you have to scale the map of the times, but the council my staff before making changes so large parts in small steps, since the maps are already calculated for 80mm3, for the moment, try to settle to this value, which is not little if you think now to the regime of maximum power to inject about 64mm3, and then keep in mind that to burn the diesel fuel, which serves the air and here you have to make the accounts with the turbine original that already I don't know if it is able to provide the amount of air for burning the “good” 80mm3 let alone 90 or more.
However I see that you jump from the map the pedal to conversion IQ, but according to me, in the middle there is the torque limiter, so you have to take this into account.
Thanks a lot switing63,
Yes, in fact, of the limiters I have not mentioned because sottointendevo that relate to ideal conditions, and, anyway, I've already adjusted/squared in the basis of the new values.
Thank you for the tips. You would have someone to the air also?
I have just a little of time to devote to the unit will update.
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