View The Full Version : Alfa 147 edc15c7 the injection times of doubt
Hello everyone I am new to the forum-it's a wonderful that are writing but until now I'm only limited to read and do various tests on my machine..looking a bit here and there I've brought you surge the various and iq of 80 mm3 raised the limiters rail up to 1400 bar the two bits to 1350 l car pushes good not to smoke so much I made a logo and injects actually 80 mm3, however, I would like to understand how to change the break time and learn how to make a thing well done..In practice, I should be tabular to climb the curves back and create the break new up to 80 mm3? I hope someone can help me I do not have very clear ideas..thanks in advance.David
you almost explained by only..study the map times.
especially in the last break point...
Hello munro, thanks for the interest, I've followed many of your discussions! In practice, from what I understand I do a new one for 80 in the last line in the penultimate one from a 75 and then others call in with the ones from the 70's, that I already have up in the bottom right? And then I go back to the beginning of time and a suitable break point to tell them to read up to 80 that now it is 70?
I know that I don't understand..the last row is that of 4500 rpm is to 0 that I have to leave it as is? And if the stopover the third, and the fourth row down should be overwritten by the fifth and the sixth non mi quadra..sorry but I do not understand
I too would like to figure out how to change the time of iniez
in fact, it may not be so, because from a negative value.instead, if riscali the load i.e. the entire column of the 100% goes in place of 95% that 95% goes to 90% and so on might work.hypothesis my
the times of the injections are the a and b axis are the speed of the engine, the other axis is the quantity of diesel injected and the numbers written in the table are the opening time of the injector.so what we see in tabbella as charged(100%) is actually 70 mg.
I understand what you mean I tried to riscalarle in that way but doing so at 1100 rpm I would have an increase of 300% so I think this is the right way..
Or I had also thought to bring the break at the beginning that is prior to the map time (that ori is 7003 if I'm not mistaken, and would correspond to 70 mm3) up to 8003 in this way I would have an increase in the percentage of 14.6 giving this increase to any single column, I'd get the time for 80mm3, but it seems to me too easy so..
How many boxes have you rescaled?
There is no need for riscaliate all the columns. Calculate the time you need to 80mm3 and you write in the last column. In the penultimate copied equal par values, gold for 70mm3 and go to inform the ecu on the curves of the Bp-axis mg, bringing the second-to-last bit in the 7000 and 8000. Obvious that on all the maps, which bear on the axes of the mg these must be modified as above, and calculated the values of the Z-axis to the 80mm3
I do not understand. You only need to update the last column?there is need mod from 50%of the load and 1500giri?
Ah understood then!what a fool I riscalavo all..For example in this case edc15c7 the last three columns, i.e. 90 95 100 load are identical then you could leave the 90's so that is already to 70mm3 that of 95 to 75 mm3 and that of 100 of the load for the 80mm3 then go to the bp at the beginning and as it says in r5 to change the last bit to 80, and the second-to-last in 75 and the last is already 70! Right???so it seems to me that it makes sense
Modificamdo only the last two columns, I think you don't hear much difference in the car
Yes indeed then 80 mm3 you would have only 100 of load already you could do the last three of 80 mm3 to make it a 75 in place of the ori 65 and move the one that is 70 instead of 60..but so it seems to me exaggerated and strange because as you say usually making it, in percentage, from be from 1500 while in this way you would increase already at 900 rpm..I don't know I'm confused
Modificamdo only the last two columns, I think you don't hear much difference in the car
This beautiful.....ahahaha
Ok errecinque you convinced me you can do is try :) as soon as I place a draft!
Wait david, let's see what he says. But you know what value to put for 80mg?
To me that would calculate all the values of the columns 75 and 80 with the proportions and in the same manner also calculate the advances surely is a somewhat crude..I don't know 80/70=1.14 for es 795×1.14=906 us doing the same thing on advances would be off 3 degrees or so considering that one should be 43 but this with rail 1350 raising the rail will serve less advance..I don't know this is what I would think surely there will be a formula that simplifies it all, or maybe my reasoning makes water from all sides!
I think it's not the right way to calculate the time. According to me you should decide what rail pressure you want to work aumentanto the rail inietteremo more if the time ori. However, if the rail to let ori need to increase the time for have more .therefore, to calculate the time need the press.rail
To me that would calculate all the values of the columns 75 and 80 with the proportions and in the same manner also calculate the advances surely is a somewhat crude..I don't know 80/70=1.14 for es 795×1.14=906 us doing the same thing on advances would be off 3 degrees or so considering that one should be 43 but this with rail 1350 raising the rail will serve less advance..I don't know this is what I would think surely there will be a formula that simplifies it all, or maybe my reasoning makes water from all sides!
For the formulas you search in the forum there are at least a dozen discussions where the good Munro is well explained by the calculations. You can every time re-explaining everything.
Thanks errecinque!found it! Congratulations I watched a bit of discussion.. you and munro know a lot of things and you're always kind available. The formula is (square root of rail × time (us):iq the value obtained should be multiplied by the iq that you want to get, and should be divided by the square root of the rail.so you get the new value.. I did two calculations of the test and the obtained value is not very different from the value obtained using the aspect ratio..
So theoretically I would have three ways to switch from 70mm3 to 80mm3..the first leaving the rail pressure original calculate the time for 80mm3, and anticipate much.the second is to raise the rail pressure es 1400 calculate the time for 80mm3, and anticipate on the basis of the rail pressure. the third rail es 1400 calculate the time based on the rail pressure and let the advances of the original.*****and does it work? It should be based on the limit dell the injector and you try to cause less stress to the pump?sorry if I make all these stories, but I would like to understand as much as possible
To inject 80mg over the rail of the times you have to raise the launch limiter
My reasoning was with regard to the correlation time pressure advances, hypothetically, already in a change with limiters various set pre-set values..
Hello everyone!sorry for the delay but I had problems with the notebook computer, and I had to move everything on that drive..a stupid question but I can load the file to me modified or do I need to astettare have reached 80 mg?thanks!
Hello everyone!sorry for the delay but I had problems with the notebook computer, and I had to move everything on that drive..a stupid question but I can load the file to me modified or do I need to astettare have reached 80 mg?thanks!
Upload you can upload so someone can check. the 80msg you need to be able to access the download
Thanks errecinque!the I zipped I don't know if I had to..thank you in advance if someone will have time to give him an eye!I hope I have more or less understood I the recalculation of the column of 75mm3 and 80mm3 according to the rail with the formula..
C is no one who cannot find the time to give it a look??????
hello davideO!according to my humble opinion, the time you have to get them to review as well as limitatorirail and rail pressure.
with regard to the torque limiter, the bp is not good,does not mean iq, but the engines rpm.
then I give you other addresses:072e7e,072fd6 078efc.
Thanks frank! It is true, are the laps and to think that I was also watching a discussion about it on the effect pop corn that stupid are they?!not l I tried the map I don't know how it goes..tomorrow I try to look at the addresses you gave me! And I see if I can correct some error!
In the classical, pop corn, there are some interesting and exciting discussions,two possibilities:bp limiter torque
: single bit at 6000 rpm
Are with your cell and I can not view the map,if I'm not mistaken it should be after the rail pressure
I have corrected the torque limiter and I tried to search for the limiter, rpm going all over the map and I found 3-bit individual at 6000 after rail pressure there are for me could be the one to 072caa in the middle of the two-bit rail pressure. I tried to see those addresses that you gave me: 072e7e seems to rail pressure according to rpm;072fd6 it seems to me, iq on the basis of a rail pressure; 078efc is a straight line at 6000 rpm? The times I have calculated with the same formula, only the column from the 75-and 80-on the basis of the rail pressure is for what l have increased only in that area..I don't know if it is correct usually I do 50 load 1500 rounds in this way, the increases are already at low rpm..
hello davideO!then the limiter rpm to the address 07ba3a,the two addresses are:Conversion of quantity into tourque f(n,m fuel)12x12 and Conversion quantity m-of fuel f(n-md)12x12.
the other address line is set to 6000 the limiter fumes or map smoke!
The fact the limiter I set to 4500! Can't wait to try it! 072e7e l I raised on the last bp to 14000 that is, I imagine that the previous map is not always the rail, reached all the pressure..the map smoke l I brought it to 8000, I imagine, go changed as well..while 072fd6 conversion quantity m-of fuel f (n-md)on the bp 14000 I imagine that this is rail, while on the axis it seems to me iq or temperature? This map I don't know I tried searching but I have not found much..thanks frenk85 for your help!
I do not have the damos under the hand, but checks to see if the 8000 that you say of lim smoke are mg or mm3. If you have mg, go up to 94 mm3 were perhaps a bit too much and unnecessary if the car stock
I looked a bit here on the forum and I found a couple of discussions in which they say that the edc15c7 list the values in mm3 I don't understand how it works 078efc is a straight line, at 6000 I would imagine that they are mm3 to turn it into mg would be about 70, but in the map I have now on the car is not modified I've made a log and 80mm3 them injects anyway, perhaps only in certain conditions..I don't know
No 60 mm3 are 51 mg. 1 mm3=0.85 mg
Inject 80 mm3 because of him you have given us through the maps the pedal and the lim couple.an idea that I have done?are the limiters for a possible upgrade,as are the limiters gear which are set all to 100.am I wrong?!?!
I looked a bit here on the forum and I found a couple of discussions in which they say that the edc15c7 list the values in mm3 I don't understand how it works 078efc is a straight line, at 6000 I would imagine that they are mm3 to turn it into mg would be about 70, but in the map I have now on the car is not modified I've made a log and 80mm3 them injects anyway, perhaps only in certain conditions..I don't know
If you don't do a map informed, well it is hard to trust the diagnosis. If you do not calculations well tinj with respect to the iq you like, I think that the mm3 at diagnosis are not exact, but here we need someone more experienced to confirm what I said
Thanks guys!you're right, r5 I have done the calculation on the contrary! The time I calculated on the basis of the rail with the formula that I posted at the beginning that if I'm not mistaken I found in a discussion of munro! In fact, my goal was to learn how to make a map informed with the one I have, the turbine has peaks exaggerated and is not the value in the map, I guess that is because the ecu does not know truly what you inject..this I think I would not like to say nonsense
David, have you tried the map?
Hi aleg!I rearranged a bit tomorrow if I advance a bit of time to load and I try to do a log! L I would have done it before but I had broken the flat that goes to the laptop's screen and I was without it!
If you don't do a map informed, well it is hard to trust the diagnosis. If you do not calculations well tinj with respect to the iq you like, I think that the mm3 at diagnosis are not exact, but here we need someone more experienced to confirm what I said
are absolutely not an expert,but from tests I have seen on this ecu the iq you from across the maps the pedal.if forced (e.g. 80mm3)in the map,in the diagnosis of mi by 80 accurate then I don't know.........
Tested today..should be less that the original impunta to 3500 rpm when you switch it off is strange as if you're working bad even the butterfly..the map is that I posted, and I fixed the bp of the torque limiter and I lifted those addresses data from frank up to 80mm3..I dunno maybe those addresses must not be touched or maybe not in that way..maybe I have not done in the correct way, the bp of the axes.. tomorrow them carry gold about everything and do another test!
hi davideO,I'm allowed to review a bit the map,not the I made on your map to play it quite a bit.
Hello frank!thank you so much for the kindness and for the time lost..but I still have no permissions to view it..that sucks!!all my doubts are there and I can take them off!if you want to explain to me in a large way what have you done?
Slut the pupazza you are right!I forgot I'm sorry!
I calculated the timing,and limiters press the rail,the same rail pressure,the limiter smoke was well.then for maps of the pedal, if I can give you an advice, do not start now with 80mm3, but gradually,not have the effect "ready socket"
As I get the permissions will be the first thing that you'll look! The time you calculated is also you, with that formula based on the rail?I had only one column of 75 and 80 mm3), but there I had put a lot of time! Wrong then because the car does not go..according to me escapes me qls on the bp of the boards..no I have never had the opportunity to study a map made with a bit of policy, plan plan, I will learn it too !
Great guys, really a nice post, I have been removing a lot of questions and I'm happy... hahaha
If frenk85 know my ECU I join my discussion.
ECU MSB101230 Discovery TD5 2002 or Defender TD5 is the same...
I have the opposite problem to David, changing the ECU because it damaged, I have the problem of the pulsation of the injectors at low rpm as if it was too early. Surely the problem lies in the fact that I have the injectors in the euro 2 and the ECU is a Discovery of the 2001 and euro 1.
I almost forgot, the car pulls well and responds to all the variations of maps that I'm trying, the only flaw is the annoying knock in the low rpm... Help me, please
I almost forgot, the car pulls well and responds to all the variations of maps that I'm trying, the only flaw is the annoying knock in the low rpm... Help me, please
If you have the file ORI of the old ecu (which is available anyway through hw/sw) you can compare and see what changes and maybe adjust something.
Thanks Tranky, good morning, I have tried but the old ECU is a NNN with flash, instead of this I re-programmed, a MSB without a flash that I zoccolato and put the eeprom is programmable.
By analyzing the two files, I noticed that they are totally different...
If they can serve the them, in the same place this evening.
Great guys, really a nice post, I have been removing a lot of questions and I'm happy... hahaha
If frenk85 know my ECU I join my discussion.
ECU MSB101230 Discovery TD5 2002 or Defender TD5 is the same...
But misery thief.....is a post with the title alfa 147....because you have to inquinarlo? What there enters here the defender!! Open a new post no
Sorry so much... it was Not my intention to pollute the back In compliment to this post I forgot the title... 😶
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