View The Full Version : Problem c220 cdi
blackwolf76
28-09-2012, 23:32
I don't know if this ? the right section, anyway, place the request and in the case if you decide to move it.
I have a mercedes c220cdi 2002, which is driving me crazy. In practice, cold start is good, while hot is hard, the kind that happens with the VAG. Since I do not know that ? a known issue on these cars, maybe someone can? give me a solution or at least a straight to try to solve the problem.
I have to say that I tried to replace with other recovery components the following without success: Pump, Rail, injectors, camshaft sensor, crankshaft sensor, fuel filter, and I have checked all the pipes without any success. The car once started runs like a swiss watch and makes normally...
For if there is some solution on the mapping??
Thanks...
I'm sorry, in the start-up how many bars are there ??for me c'? a pressure drop... let us know...
lumaracing
29-09-2012, 09:38
hello blackwolf76,for me, the first thing you see in the start-up how many bars there are in the function of the control pressure, a common power supply,if the pressure goes up to 300 bar goes well,then you need to do the test of the waste injectors and check if nn reject any iettore.
blackwolf76
29-09-2012, 10:38
hello blackwolf76,for me, the first thing you see in the start-up how many bars there are in the function of the control pressure, a common power supply,if the pressure goes up to 300 bar goes well,then you need to do the test of the waste injectors and check if nn reject any iettore.
having doubt on the injectors and pump I replaced both with test material, but the problem ? stayed the same... no ? changed nothing. And ? this is the thing that is perplexing...
Now recheck the pressure.... we see that he tells me.
You've replaced the valve drv on the rail? (fuel pressure regulator)
blackwolf76
30-09-2012, 11:04
You've replaced the valve drv on the rail? (fuel pressure regulator)
unfortunately, I also replaced the one... the only thing that me ? remained ? the starter that maybe runs not very fast.
You may want to check the water temperature sensor and if it is the diesel
blackwolf76
30-09-2012, 11:37
The diesel is not the port and the water works regloarmente, given that hjo controlled by diagnosis, and with the infrared thermometer and matches. It could also be the pump load, even if I doubt it, don't you ? never beat up on those cars.
for what I know ? gi? known I'm the problem in these cars, I have your same car, even if to me the problem is in the starter was both cold and hot, from diagnosis nothing, everything is perfect with mbstar. the only test that I could not do it before was that of the recovery of the injectors that I made from a friend. result: 4? the injector was leaking too, replaced it in 10 min, and ? game to great! see is proof as he said lumaracing before.
blackwolf76
30-09-2012, 12:26
for what I know ? gi? known I'm the problem in these cars, I have your same car, even if to me the problem is in the starter was both cold and hot, from diagnosis nothing, everything is perfect with mbstar. the only test that I could not do it before was that of the recovery of the injectors that I made from a friend. result: 4? the injector was leaking too, replaced it in 10 min, and ? game to great! see is proof as he said lumaracing before.
The injectors that are under are reviewed and doubting in the first place I also of the ones I tried to replace the other 4 that I was in the workshop of recovery, mounted, and the same issue... it was changed to a pin of the defect.
amf tuning
01-10-2012, 20:39
low pressure diesel.......hello
filippin87
01-10-2012, 21:17
controls the return of the injectors, and if one throws you too lowers the pressure on the rail
blackwolf76
01-10-2012, 21:29
tomorrow brings me to the auuto the customer saw that he needed, and to him I give it back for the moment. Anyway, as I said already? other times, I have checked and replaced the injectors, always the same defect.
Do a test..try to mount an electric pump after the fuel filter to 3 bar by disconnecting with the mechanical..***** s, controls the pressure in the starter
blackwolf76
01-10-2012, 21:54
The pressure I verify it good tomorrow, but I doubt that it is the starter that is not having a good cue fails to put pressure on the diesel, and then late in starting, accentuating the defect to warm.
pu? be...now that I think of me ? happened on a opel 1300 mj..it seemed that it ran well, however he missed a few laps.*****o see him always by measuring the pressure
How ? ended the mange ???
if I'm not mistaken , but those injectors are not to be classified ( code ima ) ??
I would like to know, too, am and went to finish even why? I have a clk 270cdi which is the same problem but not always...
* * * audi sp:you're right almost all the injectors now have the code ima from reimmmttere in the ecu in case of replacement
I would like to know, too, am and went to finish even why? I have a clk 270cdi which is the same problem but not always...
* * * audi sp:you're right almost all the injectors now have the code ima from reimmmttere in the ecu in case of replacement
of course.. it happens often and you forget to do it
blackwolf76
06-10-2012, 22:32
Will update:
these cars do not need re-code injectors in case of a replacement, or better not to ? expected, and anyway, my diagnosis does not. Even if you find this cause as I set my hand many times to the injectors of the mercedes cdi, and in any case, I had to do that operation. What I always do on the fiat MJ for example, where ? expected, even if non-essential according to me.
Returning to the problem I can only say that, in my opinion, there is no solution, or, better, I maybe I have not been able to find it. As mentioned in another post I changed everything with test material that I keep in the workshop and the problem in any case ? varied, both in better and in worse. Just for the record rielenco all:
pump rail
injectors
pressure regulator
camshaft sensor
crankshaft sensor
fuel filter
flute rail
O-Ring fuel lines
Starter
With the latter I have had some improvements since increasing the speed? start-up engine automatically manages the first to put pressure on the fuel in the rail, which remains low at the start, most hot. Speaking with the customer told me that this car has always had a bit of that defect, even from new, and in my opinion, is accentuated lately, with the relative failure of the starter motor that had lost a few laps by the standard.
The explanation could be a defect in design or perhaps programming of the control unit caused by a modification that introduced the mercedes on those engines right from the year of construction of this car. Up to 2002 on the motors, the Cdi was mounted on the valve Elab, which is in close proximity? the pump rail, then deleted... and probably the car once turned off download circuit rail, something that has not happened since to close the circuit thought, the above valve.
If someone wants to give him a look I can post the mapping that I downloaded from the ecu and to see if maybe there is some solution to ****llo reprogramming ...
And yet, you have to solve...where are you staying blackwolf76 ??
blackwolf76
07-10-2012, 13:10
And yet, you have to solve...where are you staying blackwolf76 ??
prov. salerno
We are too far away...otherwise I would have liked to give us a look!!
sorry if you think that the problem st? in the plant that you download the xch? don't try with a mechanical valve non-return putting it in close proximity? the entry of the diesel filter?
blackwolf76
07-10-2012, 19:44
sorry if you think that the problem st? in the plant that you download the xch? don't try with a mechanical valve non-return putting it in close proximity? the entry of the diesel filter?
in fact, I have already? the mass... even directly on the tank that gave me trouble on another car...
for? given that the problem is pi? hot or cold I would say that the thing ? to exclude...
blackwolf from what I read the only thing you haven't replaced ? the electric pump low pressure, I would not that depended on you as I have also written "of the" about the motors psa...
I would like to note that on some cars if you are not in the encoding injectors ima you may have problems of that kind why? as the car or the ecu is not able to calibrate precisely in the diesel fuel to be injected to the phase delicate departure...especially to hot saw new types of diesel due to the absence of sulfur tend to behave a p? cme the benza....they have lost a lot of money in accendiabilit? and lubricity...
if you can? help, I say to you that the problem lies in the recovery of the injectors, and known, and not only in a mercedes, the injectors are hot with the dilatamento of the materials and the wear and tear of some components dedicated to the recovery of waste pressure to the system, ? normal with a new motor it starts better because? as you said reaches the first operating pressure, but not ? the solution, trust is a good pompista maybe center the bosch and do review the injectors and you will see that solve. (PS: the 15 years of MB)
if I remember correctly , this car as a pump low pressure mounts a mechanical gear , have you tried to replace that too?
blackwolf76
07-10-2012, 22:52
The loading pump ? mechanical and not electrical, and statistically, don't you ? never broken... and I've felt that too.
The injectors have just been reviewed in the mercedes, and after having tried (with the recoveries regular), for the avoidance of doubt I mounted 4 of the test, the same problem.
Only thing I now ? remained and that makes me doubt ? the tank... Just a while ago I called the customer and told me that made the air even though he had 1/4 of a tank of diesel, what among other things, happened to me too when I held the test in the workshop. Maybe you download via the return pipe of the system precisely because of the malfunction of the tank like ? known has the double tank with transfer to the depression that honestly I never understood how it works.
then, if the problem was in the tank would occur and the emptying of a bath with the resulting stationary car which is not ripartirebbe even cold, then when we have a bit of time spiegher? maybe with a guide to the operation of such a system with the valve in the venturi, however, I do not know that in a mercedes revisionino the injectors, or at least in those where I have worked I have not performed the review, but the replacement with a new or rotation mercedes that are the equivalent of new (use only the body of the old) cost from 300 you have 400 euro each. however, the problems start to warm in the mercedes with regard to diesel engines, are always due to leakage from the injectors or from the pressure regulating valve Rail, never to software, power units or motors, various, let it be the pump low pressure, is used only for the adescaggio, the rest is done by the pump AP, but be careful it could also be an internal leak of the high pressure pump, the classification of the injectors, the mercedes we do and how, not only on the CDI2 why? are signed by a number 2, but on other versions you but did not ? the problem of the classification serves to start,make a test of trivial, at the time of the hot start throttle with a clamp or a clamp for pipes of the recovery from the injectors (the last injector to recovery) and see how it behaves, but be careful because? if any of the injector has a recovery excessive the latches don't hold up and you take a bath with the diesel.
I orienterei on these three components, then you do
if I remember correctly , this car as a pump low pressure mounts a mechanical gear , have you tried to replace that too?
but are you sure guys?look at that in the clk 270cdi to which accenavo before mechanical pumps low pressure diesel, I do not see....
blackwolf76
07-10-2012, 23:27
but are you sure guys?look at that in the clk 270cdi to which accenavo before mechanical pumps low pressure diesel, I do not see....
He has it right, trust me. It is mounted immediately above the high pressure pump and has a small size and a slightly square.
*gerard
The injectors I said the owner might have put in a mercedes, now revised or replaced, I do not know, anyway, they were placed in his own words.
I have given some to what I used for the other 4 with the same problem. I did that also with the high pressure pump, I was by a friend of mine pompista and has revised a whole, and then pump seals and all the rest, and we mounted... no ? changed a damn thing, as well as in the fall of the replacement of the pressure regulator.
In addition to there? I own the same car that once made me mad with a similar problem, so I know it quite well, although in these cases there is going to become crazy. My car instead of hot, I did air the circuit after it is set in motion. Basically I was 30 seconds on the bike and then dies, with subsequent emptying of the circuit, and then start the strength of the motor that I put together to the battery. After much peripeziare in the end the problem ? understood that it was in the tank, solved with a simple non-return valve mounted on the tank and not behind the engine, where it does not produce any effect.
* munro:
in fact, if you read above I also said that the injectors are paired together, but not ? for what non-hot part, the encoding serves for another purpose
* blackwolf76:
but if you have a car the same and your off to a good hot then do a comparative test, or mountains, your injectors on his or mountains, its on your own and see what happens, then gradually go for exclusion, otherwise you don't get out alive
I gerard saw his time spent in a mb, and I extend to him the confirmation of the above stated by blackwolf...
gerard sorry to confirm that the mb dieselnon have electric fuel pump low pressure fuel??
* gerard did you read the link posted??
blackwolf76
07-10-2012, 23:39
but if you have a car the same and your off to a good hot then do a comparative test, or mountains, your injectors on his or mountains, its on your own and see what happens, then gradually go for exclusion, otherwise you don't get out alive
this, I would like to avoid...
Every time I tried this the way I have always found it to adjust to two cars and not a single one...:rolleyes: there I have luck with these things.
And then there is the other hitch is that the system of the cabbage mounting of the injectors that always create problems of loss, and then I have to put myself in the correct locations, or to change the pins... better not be, if not indispensable.
With regard to the injectors, the revision ? a simplicity? only... you always ruin the tips, replaceable component in a very short time, and of a simplicity? unique.
depends on the model, on some of those ? mechanical and other ? electric, on the new ? electric pressure 4bar and flow 70lt now, on the old ? mechanical and ranges from 0.4 to 1 bar
sorry gerard with the post you just posted rispndevi to my question??
All mercedes common rail not the latest generation of mountain-pumps of low pressure mechanical.*****s, as I have already? said previously if the problem was this would be enough to try to install an electric pump to 3 bar and see what happens...
depends on the model, on some of those ? mechanical and other ? electric, on the new ? electric pressure 4bar and flow 70lt now, on the old ? mechanical and ranges from 0.4 to 1 bar
gerard on the clk 270cdi 2002 what c'??mechanical pump or electric low-pressure fuel??
sorry gerard with the post you just posted rispndevi to my question??
you answered your question, for the link, I read some, it tells you that the injectors are coded, but if you read above the confermavo me, but not encoding leads to other problems, and not that of a difficulty? hot starter
gerard on the clk 270cdi 2002 what c'??mechanical pump or electric low-pressure fuel??
mechanical, if you look good, and positioned in front of the headboard and matching chain cover ? small, with two tubes
therefore, no electric pump??sure??
blackwolf76
08-10-2012, 00:00
therefore, no electric pump??sure??
let's say that we are sure in two...
I certainty you can find out alone, when you change the fuel filter the car immediately or it makes you damn the soul if not the drainages with the vacuum?? Even if it would be enough to open the hood for? to the 99% ? mechanical.
therefore, no electric pump??sure??
The common rail ? released in its first version in about'99/2000 on the motors, mercedes, in 2002, was the second version, CDI2 and fitted with a pump BP mechanical
not a provocation,I swear!!
for what it is I have the clk first series has an electric pump of bp identifiable with the engine om612 with maximum pressure common rail 1350bar from 2003 onwards, the engine becomes om647 with a rail pressure of 1600 bar and pump the low-pressure integrated mechanical pump for high pressure? on some models om647 c'? a pre pump low pressure fuel..
confirm gerard??
not a provocation,I swear!!
for what it is I have the clk first series has an electric pump of bp identifiable with the engine om612 with maximum pressure common rail 1350bar from 2003 onwards, the engine becomes om647 with a rail pressure of 1600 bar and pump the low-pressure integrated mechanical pump for high pressure? on some models om647 c'? a pre pump low pressure fuel..
confirm gerard??
if you give me the frame control on the program and see what type of system fits because your being a 2002 it should be a 209, and if ? a 270 should mount a 647 engine, though ? 647 may be cdi3 with electric pump
is the "my" ? a w209 but with the engine om612 frame wdb2093161f027582 you'll see that of mechanical pumps, low-pressure non c'? they are...
however, I greet you I go to sleep, tomorrow starts a week heavy for me at hello!!
night everyone!!!!
is the "my" ? a w209 but with the engine om612 frame wdb2093161f027582 you'll see that of mechanical pumps, low-pressure non c'? they are...
however, I greet you I go to sleep, tomorrow starts a week heavy for me at hello!!
night everyone!!!!
For You1316
But in the end, it is the machine part or no?:rolleyes:
you are still arguing about is***** pump??? mechanical in that language you have to say...
gerard not replicavo some of you...I know tiburtina..salaria..you make of the great courses of the update..:rolleyes:
blackwolf76
18-10-2012, 00:35
the car he needed, and the customer has prresa cos? for the time being... anyway I know that the problem is in the tank, because if it remains low on fuel, the you empty the tank from the side of the draft and saw that all the rest of it ? been checked nothing strange that the two things are connected.
Hi all .. Maybe I can be of help if I think I have understood that to test you have replaced virtually everything with this last statement(the failure of the dis****llo fuel ) I am sure that the fault is in the high pressure pump..the clearing of the reservoir takes place due to the return of fuel of the same,if this works for me (internal losses) and lack of functioning of the venturi and in the float that does not pass the diesel in the other tub.. hot or it will amplify the problem.. usually with the full feels less..
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