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fabio
24-06-2014, 11:26

gionag
24-06-2014, 22:15
hello fabio,
can't I download again the file...

that hw and sw mount ?

if ? a 147 edc15c7 like mine (8v 115hp)
addresses, maps duration are :

724BA and 7278A I I change in parallel (perhaps wrongly)

express duration in us (convertible in degrees thanks to the factor 0.023437) on one axis you have the rail pressure and on the other you have the rpm.

I confirm that if we speak of the same centrlalina and use winols I am attaching the mappack

fabio
24-06-2014, 22:26
Sisi we speak of the same unit

gionag
25-06-2014, 00:27
Try these,
I warn you, I'm a total self-taught, the use for mine and until now they have worked.

there is also a couple of maps for the open-loop variable geometry...

here it is -> 8172

fabio
25-06-2014, 09:54
thank you gionag but the map that I've shown you ? that of the advances , that is, when(in degrees) to start the injection , I'm the one that indicates the duration of the injection....for the file that you sent me thank you but do not know how to use winols, prover? to open it and see? what happens

gionag
25-06-2014, 10:05
I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong...
but the SOI are here :
7321A & 746B0

the ones I gave you are for the duration limiter or at least I hope, altirmenti I would have the machine that brought a few dozen graidi :D

fabio
25-06-2014, 14:11
Looks to me you've opened up a world, I believed that the duration they were on the SOI, SOI have on the axes of the fuel and rpm? Thanks 1000 for the help that you give me

fabio
25-06-2014, 14:53
Looking good maps that I have indicated I don't understand well how to interpret them and why? if I do the accounts for 3000 rpm at the maximum fuel me out that the injection starts to 11gradi btdc and lasts 30 degrees, whereas you can overcome the 10gradi post injection, I believe that I did not understand a bat... can you help Me understand? Thanks

gionag
25-06-2014, 15:14
Looking good maps that I have indicated I don't understand well how to interpret them and why? if I do the accounts for 3000 rpm at the maximum fuel me out that the injection starts to 11gradi btdc and lasts 30 degrees, whereas you can overcome the 10gradi post injection, I believe that I did not understand a bat... can you help Me understand? Thanks

in the meantime, I'm happy to help (I believe the forum will serve to this).
for what you say, I should look at maps, which at the moment are resting in the home computer.

from the calculation that you did not have subtracted the advance... the actual grades of injections dovrebero be calculated by subtracting the advance from the map duration.
see if cos? you port.

Always say, I am a neophyte beautiful and done, so my information is to be taken with the calipers :D
expect possibly a denial cos? we learn in two

munro
25-06-2014, 21:39
which formula is used to transform the microseconds of the injection duration angular?
just to understand if we use the same formula, or still have the same result the afterlife? the method used...

munro
25-06-2014, 21:55
I, however, use this formula:Degrees=rev/min*6*T
Es: 684 µsec to 3500 rpm
Degrees = 3500*6*684/1000000 = 14.3 degrees

gionag
25-06-2014, 22:34

munro
25-06-2014, 22:48
ok even convert microseconds....
but these and convert them to degrees??

gionag
25-06-2014, 22:57
if I'm not mistaken : us * 0.023437 should give you the degrees, or at least, from DAMOS in the SOI ? cos

munro
25-06-2014, 23:36
agree.....

munro
25-06-2014, 23:40
so in summary if you map times to 300 bar and 1 mm3 of iq you have a decimal value of 824 converting the second factor 0,023437 the duration to inject only one mm3 of diesel ? of 19.3 degrees??
I seem to tantini for so little diesel....

fabio
26-06-2014, 01:04

fabio
26-06-2014, 01:08
but the fundamental problem ? that in the maps of the duration I don't see the turns in the axes, but rail pressure and fuel, then how do I use the formula without knowing my shaft engine how much is it going fast ? I had thought to infer from the rpm on the basis of the rail pressure given that c'? the map and where can I see how many spins to match certain pressures...? just my reasoning ? thanks dell help that you give me

gionag
26-06-2014, 08:33
but the fundamental problem ? that in the maps of the duration I don't see the turns in the axes, but rail pressure and fuel, then how do I use the formula without knowing my shaft engine how much is it going fast ? I had thought to infer from the rpm on the basis of the rail pressure given that c'? the map and where can I see how many spins to match certain pressures...? just my reasoning ? thanks dell help that you give me

at this point I think of you... I was convinced that the grades you ricavassero by multiplying by that factor sottraendone the advance.

gionag
26-06-2014, 13:45
to me, the speech does not convince me yet.
have a look at the attached file,
contains a simulation made with excel converting with your formula degrees in duration.
I put a field to vary the RPM, see you :D


8176

sergiot
26-06-2014, 16:51
the calculation seems to me plausible

fabio
26-06-2014, 17:31
nice job gionag , but I can not figure out how to use that table why? if I fixed a number of laps, and I'm going to see in the map of the SOI for that value of laps I was 16 bits that indicate the behavior in the various requests of diesel...now how do I decide which the value of the rail I have to take from the table, what have you done ? I don't know if I managed to understand my doubt

fabio
29-06-2014, 15:21
guys anyone found any solutions ? I do not come to **** , pi? I am looking for a solution, and more? I incasino :(

sergiot
29-06-2014, 20:19
it seems to me that you have made a speech a little confused in your request.
in the table shown has nothing to do with the SOI, the rail pressure, that only serves to calculate the duration of injection in degrees crankshaft.
ask again

fabio
29-06-2014, 20:34
Sorry, I realize that I will explain as a book bargain.... I understand better what I would like to follow from the knowledge of these maps... Since my goal ? inject ir? diesel fuel than stock (100 mm3) I would like to know when starts the injection and how long is it in order to be able to calculate how many degrees of post injection I and if ? the case, anticipate.... This speech nn I can do why? the map and SOI map duration does not have the same parameters of the X-axis ? Y, and so I can not compare them to understand, for example, at 3000 rpm when it starts the injection and how long it lasts... I don't know if I explained it well

munro
29-06-2014, 21:23
according to me, the titanium already? I'll say...
then, however, in the axis of the soi you have the rpm
you have so many degrees quant'? the iq.....
a p? logic then is not bad...
you can't expect to inject 80mm3 to 800 rpm...
c'? a proportion.....

fabio
29-06-2014, 23:06
munro I agree that I will never inject 80mm3 to 800 rpm ...but ? a limit of the pump, a rail that those laps nn can provide high pressures, right ? ? this is the proportion of which you speak ?

fabio
29-06-2014, 23:18
however, even if I have read it 100 times what you wrote I still do not find relationships to do the calculation that I said before...sorry if I'm so blunt, but I'd really like to learn

gionag
30-06-2014, 12:46
the first problem to solve ? :
given an injection pressure, and set the IQ to be injected, how long should I keep open the injectors ?

at this point, you will have a time in the us, the time in the us the convert as a formula for the number of laps you want to know the duration in degrees.
of course, given a fixed time (time of injection), the angle that the crankshaft turns during the opening varies according to the rpm, of course, make? less degrees at high rpm and vice versa.

example (with data totally invented).
I have to inject 100mm3, this brings me to a time of injection with 1400bar of 1200us.. then I convert 1200us in degrees in relation to different rpm (to get some points of reference for the mid-bass high rpm). you will find that at 2000 rpm 1200us, the equivalent of 30? to 3000rpm 20? and to 4000rpm 10?.
now it occurs, by subtracting the advance payments (which you find in relation to the rpm in a direct manner, without the need to convert).

from them, you understand how much you are out and where to possibly anticipate.


NOW, as I always say, these are my guesses, perhaps without foundation... I'm taking you back just as I realized I

fabio
30-06-2014, 13:38
I tried to make a real account with the procedure you described...then I found that to 3000 rpm and 1400 bar to inject 70mm3 want us 877 us, the equivalent of 15.7 ? .... now the map SOI tells me that those rides and those mm3 my injection begins 8.8? before TDC ...then the degrees of post-injection 6.9? ....? right ? I figured out how to do ?

sergiot
30-06-2014, 14:06
I corrected the calculation done by fabio.
less correct the calculation of gionag, where it indicates the degrees to 1200 ms. why? in parit? of time if the speed? increases increases in proportion to the degree paths at the same time.

gionag
30-06-2014, 14:13
right sergio... you are right, I flipped over in my head the perspective :D

1200ms ? I believe they are us...

*fabio how did you come to 877us with 70mmq ? what calculation have you done ?

fabio
30-06-2014, 15:16
And the value written in the map stock

gionag
30-06-2014, 22:07
what an idiot :rolleyes:

with regard to the increases, I don't think just do a percentage of a value stock.. why? if I remember correctly the trend of the flow rate as a function of pressure ? exponential...

fabio
01-07-2014, 21:49

gionag
01-07-2014, 21:56
exact, but here I still... I still have not quite figured out how to derive the injection times
at the time I just do a "linear forecast" than the trend of the last significant columns on the map stock...

fabio
01-07-2014, 22:08

fabio
01-07-2014, 22:11
and if I remember correctly, the graph of the function root ? the inverse of the exponential ...but since this formula is in the denominator, the one that comes out SHOULD ( I'm not sure) have a trend exponential

munro
01-07-2014, 22:41
the calculation of iq rpm v? the fact already mom bosch in the maps soi..
es to inject 60mm3 at 3000 rpm waiting for 15? soi(random numbers) now, knowing this, just go to cecarsi in the map times the bp in the us for the 60mm3 and knowing how it starts and how long you have all the info you need...
attention to? the iq does not grow exponentially with the trend of the pressure...
just study the map times for the same iq as you change the press the times change, not exponentially....
if 700bar and 600 us (always random numbers) injects a tot iq to 1400 bar and always 600 us not injects 4 times more...(exponentially)...
then I can be denied at any time....
the formula posted by fabio serves to be the new K-factor to be inserted in the map times for a map to conform to the new press rail where you update all the axes and the relative bp...
to rescale the columns you need to use excel...

gionag
01-07-2014, 22:56
the calculation of iq rpm v? the fact already mom bosch in the maps soi..
es to inject 60mm3 at 3000 rpm waiting for 15? soi(random numbers) now, knowing this, just go to cecarsi in the map times the bp in the us for the 60mm3 and knowing how it starts and how long you have all the info you need...
attention to? the iq does not grow exponentially with the trend of the pressure...
just study the map times for the same iq as you change the press the times change, not exponentially....
if 700bar and 600 us (always random numbers) injects a tot iq to 1400 bar and always 600 us not injects 4 times more...(exponentially)...
then I can be denied at any time....
the formula posted by fabio serves to be the new K-factor to be inserted in the map times for a map to conform to the new press rail where you update all the axes and the relative bp...
to rescale the columns you need to use excel...



let's see what comes out from the map stock of 147 the first series:
70 mm3 * 3000 rpm I 11?, in the map duration, the bp of the 70mm3 I have a series of values related to the pressure in the rail.. I did not quite understand from here how to proceed

fabio
01-07-2014, 23:06
I have the same doubt of gionag why to a value iq are related a lot of pressure in the rail...? I think the solution is to see at 3000 rpm, what is it ? the real pressure that runs the rail and in this way you can? find the value to change

fabio
02-07-2014, 15:08
as always, I return to the accounts...by the accounts from the map stock, in many cases, the injection ends much before TDC to 10 degrees before.....maybe something wrong :(

sergiot
02-07-2014, 16:16
I don't know if all correctly interpreted the maps.
the information dependent on the rpm is only on the map of rail pressure
the map duration injection is not dependent on the engine rpm.
the maps SOI instead depend on the rpm

munro
04-07-2014, 00:08
the flow rate of an injector is not ? proportional to the variation of pressure, much less exponential.(mathematically paralando but if you want feel free to smentirmi)
the flow rate(true iq) increases with the square root of the pressure increase...
then the dual of the rail pressure is not equivalent to double the flow injector but "only" to 1/4...
the formula ?:flow2=flow1*sqrt of press1/press2....

fabio
04-07-2014, 15:01
all right, but the me problem ? always the one , maybe I can understand my doubt....you can make a practical example with real data taken from the map so maybe I can understand ..thanks

munro
04-07-2014, 19:23
what? specifically, your doubt??

fabio
05-07-2014, 14:40


fabio
05-07-2014, 14:44
guys when I wrote this sentence "this calculation leads me to think that the injection starts to 23.6? before TDC and ends 22.9? after" I was wrong why? you can? understand 22.9? degrees after TDC , instead I meant to 22.9? after the start of injection ...sorry

munro
05-07-2014, 15:04
first thing in the advances are converted directly with the factor 0,023437....then where to 4500 rpm read 896 you're 21? of advance...now you know that to inject those iq that you were talking about before at those rpm the ecu always uses 21? of advance...
moving in the injection times for those iq have durations of injection 22.9? as you calculated....
now your beginning to 70mm3 starts at 21? the first of the pms lasts from this point onwards for 22,9? then ends up with 1.9? after the pms...
the speech that you linked to press rail>iq and rpm and gi? all calculated from the ecu to the different conditions of use....
now you only affects the area of the map where you want to inject all the fuel that you want to assume that you have both at a high rpm and "loads"...the other areas of the "intermediate" why do you want to change?? do you want to complicate your life?
and anyway, if you really look, maybe with winols the map times you'll see that for e.g 50mm3 of diesel 300 bar, you will have a time of 3-4000 us to 1350 that time is reduced with the formula that I posted recently for the calculation of the press...
so...

munro
05-07-2014, 15:06
ah..I forgot...don't focus only on the rpm...logs into the injection times and press the rail in conjunction with the iq...you will see that you will understand the connection...

fabio
05-07-2014, 18:49
thanks for the reply, I understand that I have to change only at the points where the do pi? diesel(what is pi? simple) ...? I would like to make the change to the SOI, starting from the IQ of 30 or 40 why? I know that the SOI in the original are made to the standards euro 3, and then are designed to pollute less and do not going strong(and I don't even know how many are the degrees of post-injection ideal ,I knew 5 confirmed? ) ..***** s, if I change only where necessary I is a map of SOI with spikes very high , ? right ? last question ...to push the car up to 5000 rpm, I have to "build" the map, where it is flat ?

munro
05-07-2014, 19:23
you can, however, start to moddare advances and times of 30-40 mm3..no one forbids...
the fact ? the advance payments for a diesel engine are of help up to a certain point..if you overdo it you create serious damage...remember that for every degree of advance you have on average in the combustion chamber increased to 10bar....the limit for the 115hp to me ? to 180-190 bar....in addition, you richiano heavy breakage, especially of the****s flywheel assembly...
the degrees to a maximum of post-injection tolerable, typically on a 8 valve, but also on other engines and motors of 10? after this threshold has a lot of smoke ? a lot of heat.....especially the latter is not beneficial to the engine in general....the ideal would be to mount a thermocouple egt and monitor the egt....
for the "shape" of the map, not preocupparti too the map needs to be functional for what you want to achieve is not aesthetically beautiful.....
to push the car until you have 5000 rpm, serves to fuel and air righteous....

fabio
07-07-2014, 10:15
munro thanks for the time that I spend, now I'm going to make 2 accounts and I do the new map...I know how it goes :)

fabio
10-07-2014, 22:39
Hi to all... The map I made is very strong, with the calculation of the advance payments, the smoke, and practically disappeared... I Do ir? or less 7.5 s from 0-100 with 100mm3 of fuel to 1400 bar and 1.6 peak turbo... I'm pretty satisfied, but I don't know if you can? do better with car ori

gionag
11-07-2014, 20:26
Hi to all... The map I made is very strong, with the calculation of the advance payments, the smoke, and practically disappeared... I Do ir? or less 7.5 s from 0-100 with 100mm3 of fuel to 1400 bar and 1.6 peak turbo... I'm pretty satisfied, but I don't know if you can? do better with car ori


however, peak 1.6 ? tad.. how much st? of a constant ? I am afraid to go beyond 1.3 bar with the turbazza original...

gionag
11-07-2014, 20:28
another thing...
how did you read 1.6 ? the sensor the original on the is car is saturated to 2.5 bar (absolute) . then ? very likely that the reading is off the scale... maybe in the header you have even more?... check

fabio
11-07-2014, 20:54

gionag
11-07-2014, 21:54


but as you are in the scheme ?

fabio
11-07-2014, 22:02
1.5... But in fifth gear at a high rpm goes back a bit to 1.6 but it's not always

gionag
11-07-2014, 22:08

taking the average figures for... to make 100mm3 1.5 you have an afr of around 14.5... does not smoke ?

fabio
11-07-2014, 22:23
No she does not smoke, maybe the map Maf is not ? made very well for? when I do the log I mark an injection-approximately 100mm3.... For the turbo pressure so that the 1749 1.5 is almost on the surge Line so it should hold up... And then has to stand For just because? I am going to put a turbo new type 2256 or 2260 then will see?....

gionag
11-07-2014, 22:57
No she does not smoke, maybe the map Maf is not ? made very well for? when I do the log I mark an injection-approximately 100mm3.... For the turbo pressure so that the 1749 1.5 is almost on the surge Line so it should hold up... And then has to stand For just because? I am going to put a turbo new type 2256 or 2260 then will see?....

to 100mm3 that MAF read from the log ? and in the map size limit of fumes that bp did you match the 100 ?
calculate the pressure of the turbine halls, a consequence of the increase of the diesel, so I believe, that in order to have a PREDICTABLE behavior of the pressure turbo would have to be adapted in an intelligent manner also the map of variable geometry.
from what I understand, this device works in open-loop then the only reference that has the machine to adjust the pressure ? the map (the maps for the accuracy) of the variable geometry.

fabio
11-07-2014, 23:07
Sisi maps of the pieburg the I have already? adapted, in fact, before I had peaks of 2 bar and I have tried to eliminate the turbo lag, while keeping it a bit more? closed at low rpm( they are the tests I have done I don't know how to edit it to perfection) .... For the maf, I have never logged in nn but it seems to me you have never read a parameter name maf in ***********... The Bp, it seems to me that I put it to 1400 mg why? from a log I had of that value

gionag
11-07-2014, 23:11

if you have closed the EGR by-bit, the value "wish intake air quantity" should be set to 0.

I tried to do some account and it seems to me that in order to have a maf 1400 you should have about 1.9 bar pressure...
do a log and see the various pressures which values of maf you have...
why? it seems to me to be little sense in having 1400mg/cyc maf with "ONLY" 1.5 bar relative...

fabio
11-07-2014, 23:16
Ok prover? to make the log as you say... But the parameter intake air quantity I from values just above 1400 I remember why? I did some time ago

gionag
11-07-2014, 23:20
Ok prover? to make the log as you say... But the parameter intake air quantity I from values just above 1400 I remember why? I did some time ago

I don't see anything strange..
1400 ? a value that is quite high.. and I repeat, if you read 1400 I would expect a pressure of not less than 1.8 bar
of course, the reading of the maf depends on other parameters, including elevation, temperature, and humidity? air.

fabio
11-07-2014, 23:26

gionag
11-07-2014, 23:28
genius... I ? ahahahah ;)
verification, why? suspect that now... pressure to the turbo more? low, you will be lowered as the maf, and then you should re-check the limiter fumes...

fabio
13-07-2014, 17:10
I redid the log , the new MAF ? of 1233 mg ...I modified the b.p. map of fumes with a maximum value of 1250 and I calculated the new values to get a afr of 15 to a high rpm, 16 to the medes and afr ori at low revs ...the formula that I used I believe is right and just simply make mg air /arf to /0.85 = diesel fuel in the mg (the value to be placed in the box)

gionag
13-07-2014, 23:19
then...
all good the only thing...
? who want to be precise, the 0.85 for the split ? a fairly approximate.

so if 15? you have a maximum of 0.845, the last I see of 40? (temperature enough versomile of diesel injected) both of 0.85 as you f? usually.
Everything depends on the accuracy that we want to have...

Could you tell me what are for you the LOW/MID/HIGH rpm ? for me it makes little sense to do this subdivision...

fabio
13-07-2014, 23:39

fabio
14-07-2014, 00:50

gionag
14-07-2014, 01:14


I know a little of electronics, still less of mechanical... but if I had to guess, I think so? down (1500 rpm), the turbine does not push why? CAN NOT push... in the sense that there are variables, geometric and volumetric for which the turbine is not able to go in the spool to those schemes then you can "force" as you think the management of geometry, but they can't do? never.

including maps of the geometry touches ? it should be 3. If I understand it, a ? the one that is called in the transient (the gears), the one in the guide "ECO", and one with the guide "SPORT"
I believe that the ECU to choose based on the rate which varies the TPS.

the or of the pressure may be attributable to other factors.
I would check in sequence :
- state "nesting" of the actuator of the geometry on the turbine (with the time gets stuck or runs bad...) (my, after 200k miles I had to unlock to the sound of svitol and persuasion with a screwdriver on the bar)
- clogging of the pressure sensor on the intake manifold (after the famous 200k km, of which 100km facts with the EGR active was jam-PACKED with mondezza, I used the cleaner for the brakes and ? back new)
- the state of operation of the valve pierburg and complete check of the system of generation of the void (you should have ~ -0.9 bar on the pump, -0.7 in the box of the vacuum on the actuator, at a minimum you should read between -0.45 and -0.55) (to do these tests I have taken a common vacuum gauge from 15euro and fittings/tubes and pipes suitable I went to join in the various parts of the circuit).
- the state of wear of the pipes to the air, especially the one v? from the turbine to the IC (mine was very stressed out and had a couple of points to considerable abrasion due to rubbing with that damn screw protruding on the casing of the gearbox). The tubes with the time dilate and become very elastic, this increases the effect of the lung which creates some scratch**** the centrlina in the follow faithfully the various pressure curves since it introduces a kind of inter-modulation between the generation and reading of the turbocharger)

I had problems adjusting the pressure also from the map ORI, only after these controls, I was able to get it with the pi? stable.

loads the map ori, and see if you notice all this variability? as with the modified parts from them.

fabio
14-07-2014, 01:27
As always super accurate, prover? to do these tests... However the maps that I edit are 3 and I try to do on all three of the same changes, even if a ? pi? "short" and two "long" does not have the same values... But do you by chance know what are the values on the z-axis of the maps? Thanks

gionag
14-07-2014, 01:45
As always super accurate, prover? to do these tests... However the maps that I edit are 3 and I try to do on all three of the same changes, even if a ? pi? "short" and two "long" does not have the same values... But do you by chance know what are the values on the z-axis of the maps? Thanks

I've always interpreted (and the damos I d? reason) as the % of opening of the actuator geometry, of course, this actuator are connected directly to the "fins" the furniture of the turbine.
parts from the assumption that the system ? designed to have, in the absence of depression of the actuator, or in case of malfunction of the ecu, the 0%. at 0%, the angle of incidence of the vanes ? that does not raise the pressure, then, going backwards, with the reasoning, pi values? the top of the Z-axis corresponds to a more "increase" pressure...
in fact, if you notice, at low revs should be around 70% (the maximum value of the map) then we will try to raise the pressure pi? quickly as possible, cos? to help the spool up...
of course, the map also takes into account the amount? diesel fuel is injected.
most diesel fuel is detonated, the higher? the pressure of the exhaust gases output from the collectors, then, to equal? % we will have a force from acting on the blades gradually increases with the increase of the IQ.
I usually, I limit myself to the limit, using a linear forecast weighed on the last values in the map, at the bp adapted to the new IQ, cos? to avoid peaks and strange.
in fact, from the log, I don't have PICCI as all reports, but the pressure, if compared with the "desired" ? always aligned +/- 20 pts.
If I hadn't made these changes, I had the classic peak in the opening, and then collapse and bounce around the set point.
The what not ? simple and if you think you change the turbine, so prepare for a long session of tests to adapt this map to the new geometry.

gionag
14-07-2014, 01:46
... oh my God...


(mods... please put the EDIT button ;) )

fabio
14-07-2014, 01:54
Then where I read 75 % (the maximum value of the map) I could set it to 100% cos? to go before in the spool? How do you do the linear forecast? I was never good at accounts XD

gionag
14-07-2014, 02:07
you have a 75 ? but what hw/sw you have ? I am in the map pi? 70 I do not have...
use an excel function, winols I copy the whole map and then use the function "FORECAST" by giving the known values of the bp and the values associated with it, line by line, I calculate the new values for the new IQ. now ? later, tomorrow, I make a multiplication table excel cos? understand better how it works...

(I stress that maybe my ? a system of cabbage...? up to now, has served me well...)

gionag
14-07-2014, 02:11
ha, sorry, I have not answered the question :D
I have never tried to? I think 100% is too much, in the sense that the angle of incidence ? chosen at random.
I give you an example, if you are a fan from the computer and try to blow on the air with the compressor, you'll see that the various regimes of rotation, you have a small window in which the air and lands on the blades ? effective for the rotation.
the same reasoning v? applied to the turbine... if you put 100 in, probably, exceed the limit of this "window" useful, for a given rotational speed/IQ having an opposite behavior.

Assumiti any risks and experiment ;)

fabio
14-07-2014, 02:18

gionag
14-07-2014, 12:34


For the copy/paste, I suggest you trying hard to duty winols :)
give me time to go back home for lunch, and you look once.

fabio
14-07-2014, 12:47
Watch I tried, why? winols and totally another ****llo compared to the Ecm ... But I never managed to find a useful guide that can make me understand... not To mention damos, I have them downloaded but nn are able to make them go... I just have to put myself with the patience and understand how it works

gionag
14-07-2014, 12:59
? pi? easy of what you think...
for the damos, the parties, by a very simple premise.. the DAMOS ? made specifically for a hw/sw ecu precise, try to adapt a damos, even in parit? of type unit does not lead to any result.
in parit? of hw and sw to different times, using the offset you can do it digest too... but to find the offset right ? a walk.

I usually damos I take it only as a reference, we'll take the info useful on the identifiers of the axes and the factors to multiply the values.

of winols I appreciate the fact of having the axes and the values that have a sense of logic, on the ECM I always have to work "imagination"...
learn how to read the maps in the proper manner I think is the first step to learn how to map with the policy.

Then, of course, the experience and the sharing of this factors are irreplaceable and precious, but for this, there are the forums.
Shame that it's not always the people ? available to disclose their "secrets" (open ?)

fabio
14-07-2014, 13:13
It is in fact the main problem ? that I do not know l offset from the insert, and rightly, without offset, tells me that many of the maps have not been understood, there will work? a little on the....

gionag
14-07-2014, 13:36
It is in fact the main problem ? that I do not know l offset from the insert, and rightly, without offset, tells me that many of the maps have not been understood, there will work? a little on the....

We do not lose too much time... load the file .HEX/.BIN connected to the damos and extract the information from the...

here is the attached file with the maps of the geom variable. see if ? some utilities?

8266

fabio
14-07-2014, 14:34
thanks 1000 for the document, not all of them (almost none) are willing to give aid like you do , however, which version of winols uses ? I'm on windows 8 I can only use the demo version from the site evc ...but on this one I can not load the damos ...then I have the full version but ? more of a walk and it just goes on xp

gionag
14-07-2014, 20:25
thanks 1000 for the document, not all of them (almost none) are willing to give aid like you do , however, which version of winols uses ? I'm on windows 8 I can only use the demo version from the site evc ...but on this one I can not load the damos ...then I have the full version but ? more of a walk and it just goes on xp

I'm on windows 8 and on windows xp use the same version 2.24 full. runs without any problems...
let me know if you solve with that system..? first, make sure that ****llo mechanical do not have problems.

fabio
14-07-2014, 21:19
Today I cleaned the pressure sensor, it was not spprchissimo but not very clean... as soon as I get a vacuum gauge I also do the other controls... Anyway, I saw your file and I understand the change that you do and when I can I I also

gionag
14-07-2014, 21:30
Today I cleaned the pressure sensor, it was not spprchissimo but not very clean... as soon as I get a vacuum gauge I also do the other controls... Anyway, I saw your file and I understand the change that you do and when I can I I also

if you did see (...sensor) my you would be laughing ;)
a question, you the egr as you have it disabled ? by BIT or maxando the table ?

fabio
14-07-2014, 22:59

gionag
15-07-2014, 00:24


ocio to disconnect the hose of the vapors... I think so? do not put negative pressure on the block... what ? good thing ? right...
risks of leaks are the worst if not worse...
use a decanter in series on the line, rather than a disconnection in total.

the heat exchanger you have it deleted ? if s? as you have bypassed the circuit of the liquid ? I have bent an aluminum tube cos? to fake it...

fabio
15-07-2014, 00:41

gionag
15-07-2014, 00:42
... you can buy for a few euros :D should lose the time to do so ?

fabio
15-07-2014, 00:54
That you want to short the euro? I know that you spend at least 50 euros... I rather me do it, it's free..

gionag
15-07-2014, 01:02
That you want to short the euro? I know that you spend at least 50 euros... I rather me do it, it's free..

there are places in asia much less... and are the same that they sell in italy 50 odd euro... take a ride ;)
anyway.. I agree with you that costruirsele these things d? a certain amount of satisfaction and dependence.

... (we are going OT :) )

fabio
17-07-2014, 19:27
Then, the geometry moves very easily with a screwdriver and it does not seem blocked, the pressure sensor and clean, only the controls with the vacuum gauge I have not done... having Said this I have adjusted the map with the files that I have given you, and the result ? was a pressure pi? constant, but a peak exaggerated ( almost 2 bar) for a short time and just thrust the pedal... as soon as I can I attach the video of the gauge if needed

gionag
18-07-2014, 12:59
Then, the geometry moves very easily with a screwdriver and it does not seem blocked, the pressure sensor and clean, only the controls with the vacuum gauge I have not done... having Said this I have adjusted the map with the files that I have given you, and the result ? was a pressure pi? constant, but a peak exaggerated ( almost 2 bar) for a short time and just thrust the pedal... as soon as I can I attach the video of the gauge if needed


I generally start out with that system, then I'm going to see where the pressure decreases to or exceeds the desired, and put in relation to the % of the valve... it is obvious that if you push more? diesel also iq ir? low
(the cio?... iq on the corresponding bp) then you should adjust even in the other columns, not just the terminal.

now that I can, I'd be curious to see your map, cos? maybe we learn together...

fabio
18-07-2014, 13:13
Yesterday I tried the pi? times to upload the video but I know that ? a bit large, as soon as I get home I try to compress it, and I am attaching the map (I know already? you impressionerai when you see it XD)

gionag
18-07-2014, 13:55
not if it is legitimate, but perhaps a link to youtube would be better...
I fear that the attachment size is too strict... and calculates the video ? gi? compressed to its nature, then by zipping them/rarrandolo will change? little or nothing...

fabio
19-07-2014, 10:40

Backgroop
19-07-2014, 12:12

And it's forbidden to post outside links on the forum do ir? attention

fabio
19-07-2014, 13:02
Sorry, but I can't upload the video and I have no way to show it

gionag
19-07-2014, 18:15
Sorry, but I can't upload the video and I have no way to show it

the map ? very strange,
me, the son looked at her with ECM... and it seems to me that the turbo pressure you have not changed, but only the limiter as a function of temperature.
the torque limiter ? normal that it is "a team" ?

fabio
19-07-2014, 18:36

gionag
19-07-2014, 18:46


the provision hear it linear ? or pulls of the "holes" ?

no impression, my are not the best ;)

fabio
19-07-2014, 18:57
Begin to pull at 2000 rpm and pulls up to the limiter, but maybe the top can? do ir?

Thinking about it better with the 4? and the 5? it feels a lot of "hole" no, but I remember what schemes... I have to see and let you know, for? not ? one thing is very pronounced

gionag
20-07-2014, 14:14
Thinking about it better with the 4? and the 5? it feels a lot of "hole" no, but I remember what schemes... I have to see and let you know, for? not ? one thing is very pronounced

To 90% if you make a log you'll see that in correspondence of the hole you will have a pressure drop in the... that will lighten the maf, and you take the limiter...

fabio
20-07-2014, 14:28
Oh yes, in fact, the pressure decreases as you I have already? that said... Rises then falls then rises... Anyway, I'm doing the tests by changing the management of the vgt but until now still nothing... I have tried putting the values using your file, but nn is the same, even if the decline in the values corresponding to b. P. diesel modified.... Now I have loaded another and after lunch I try... let You know... do You have any idea?

gionag
20-07-2014, 14:47
But... the vgt which map touches ? Is the ecu has 3... the damos calls sport / eco / transient

I think... I'm gonna memory... that ecm has only the echo
The others are out of the drv

Being out of the house, I can check the address... but if you are looking for c'? another discussion where they are listed

fabio
20-07-2014, 14:57
the I change all three why? I got familiar with winols and then I found them...but even without winols I was viewed as because there are many similar

gionag
20-07-2014, 18:47
fabio... I would say to continue this discussion on another topic... given that this was initially for the "injection time".

fabio
20-07-2014, 23:19



fabio
07-08-2014, 20:26
Gionag ? by the time they do not you hear, did something happen? However, I floor plan I'm working on the map of the geometry, and should always be better

gionag
09-08-2014, 19:10
I had a lot to do in the way of the work... ;) all is well.
proceed as well and keep me updated !

hello and good job

lupeen90
15-01-2015, 17:02
how do the degrees of advance?

joker01
boys continuous here and I congratulate you for the excellent post....I just wanted confirmation...
then on my alfa jtd edc15c7 with winols maps the injection times the value of the conversion from us to degrees is:0,023437 so I find the degrees of surface that I need to inject tot mm3 of fuel at the tot bar rail.
in the maps soi I did not understand if the conversion factor is always 0,023437 or is there to do the calculation rpm*6*time(us)/1000000???

thanks....

switing63
boys continuous here and I congratulate you for the excellent post....I just wanted confirmation...
then on my alfa jtd edc15c7 with winols maps the injection times the value of the conversion from us to degrees is:0,023437 so I find the degrees of surface that I need to inject tot mm3 of fuel at the tot bar rail.
in the maps soi I did not understand if the conversion factor is always 0,023437 or is there to do the calculation rpm*6*time(us)/1000000???

thanks....

This thing is very interesting, and I would like to understand too, so mine is not a reply but a request for explanation. The first consideration I make is that at different speed of rotation of the motor shaft at the same time, the number of degrees of rotation is not fixed but varies proportionally, that is, at 4000 rev/min 1000 us correspond to 24° in the rotation, but at 2000 rpm 1000, us correspond to only 12°, therefore, it is possible to have a conversion value is unique and equal to 0,023437 to convert the times of injection in degrees? this may not take into account the different speed of rotation of the crankshaft.
I personally would always calculating rpm*6*time(us)/1000000 to convert all the values of the times, in degrees, for all the maps, but as I said, I'm not sure of what and why I am asking I also enlightenment on the issue.
The second question is that the two methods give different results, or if to 4000 rpm I have a time of 950 us and use the first formula I get 4000*0.023437=22,26515°, while if I use the second (which I think is more correct) I get 4000*6*950/1000000=22,8°

joker01
These days I am continuing to study with other people on other forums, and by far, I realized that I was doing wrong.
Then map the times you need to use the conversion factor 0.976 so I find the us.
To convert to degrees, use this formula:
Rpm*6*time (us)/1000000=degrees
Instead, in the soi maps the conversion value is 0.023437 and I find the degrees.
We still expect confirmation from some expert.