View The Full Version : Problems with valves with auto lpg/cng
I open this poll to find out who of you has or has not had any problems to the valves using a car, cng/lpg (later transformed to the purchase). In case you have not had any problems what measures adopted. Thanks
hi CarloAv I work in a workshop authorised fiat and cars with an lpg system, I see all the days while the cng never seen one because they are in sardinia and here there is no the cng. the problems pi? there are frequent locking of the injectors and of the lung ...due to an oily substance that becomes a sort of caramel brown going to mess the whole system. to solve the problem usually wash everything by revising the lung with a kit aposito that contains everything, diaphragm and seals including,cleaning of the injectors with ultrasonic mode and replace the filter . sometimes the injectors nn are saved, and must be replaced,the cost is 60 euro each. with regard to the valves for me ? that just happened on the nissan note with lpg landi renzo installed from the factory . burnt valves and valve seats destroyed ... the car had about 80000 km. with the repair? the valve seats and the valves have been installed to a different material ... I don't know to tell you that material.... me ? been told apositamente for the car with the gas system. I can give you another information. loading the chassis of a fiat on the spare parts catalog original , the code of the valves change on a vehicle with a gas system, means that the fiat that come from the factory with the gas plant have the valves different from the fiat identical without the plant.I hope I helped you regards
Thanks for the clarification, so in your case the valves in the lpg systems represent a problem that rarely occurs right?
passion engines
12-10-2013, 22:49
Hello all, the problem arises from the temperature caused by the lpg pi? high of the gasoline, the valve seats have been designed to use fuel to unleaded fuel, many automotive manufacturers decided to manoeuvre the business of providing cars with lpg system considering just that the cars were compatible with this fuel, but not perfectly suitable, the solution lies in replacing valve seats and new valves are of quality? similar to or greater than original equipment. A few engines do not require this update saw the quality? of the materials used.
I agree with the passion for engines, Many manufacturers do not take account of how the Gpl works inside the engine, I work in a workshop authorised Fiat and the warranty work on the cars to lpg which are fitted with the system have been numerous, to dirt on the injectors, fortunately not yet to the valves for? with the injectors becomes rubber, to fit a lpg-engine does not ? 't be easy, in addition to the fact that when they begin to have the mileage that the valves begin to lose a p? with the cold I'm always in the workshop
blackwolf76
13-10-2013, 01:04
In my part to turn a lot of panda 4x4 old series, which is the version with the Fire engine 1000 carburetor, the greater equipped with the lpg system. I can assure you that on the old motors do not have any problem of valves and seats.
On some I mounted the engine 1.2 of the point, and I confirm that even with this change, have had no such problems. Probably the whole ? also connected to the anti-pollution systems, and various catalysts that raise combustion temperatures in a very pi? high compared to the old systems.
I, instead, on those engines in them, lpg system indirect injection since put the injector directly to the suction of a butterfly sometimes I had to drill or cut the seat of the air to the minimum otherwise they died out
Then I assume that removing the cat or replacing them with cat less blockers is partly addresses the problem right?
MultiBravo
14-10-2013, 22:26
According to me it depends in a decisive manner by the quality? of the materials used nowadays.. does not explain how the engines old and not designed for lpg at the they digest better car today with the system factory fitted.. mechanical problems of wear, unknown a dozen years ago, but now they are returning (valves and seats, ovalization of cylinders..) all caused by the materials calculated x last the right, a little.. :)
fully agree with multibravo
blackwolf76
15-10-2013, 00:22
In fact ? true that, except in special cases, due to extraordinary events do not wear out the most? the engines of today... just think of the old motors of the time. Type 10 years ago, she was stepping motor to the day in the workshop... today was not why? people forget to change the timing belts are difficult to smonterebbe some engine.
To me ? success in the workshop I received several panda natural power lpg injectors burned, and then to replace the case with pi? strange ? always been a fiat panda natural power, which after checking it had a valve burnt, the customer, me, had to take a few days after the repair but the beautiful thing ? when ? back in the workshop went perfectly 4 aaah the quirks of the mechanics :)
The fire engines fiat from 1000 to 1400, are of the mules, then the gas will not create many problems, of course, and a matter of fact, the gas having a power of detonating greater stress to the valve seats and the rest in a more high...can I still say that a friend of mine on a honda civic type r 209 hp vtech 2.0 petrol has installed a lpg system by BRC sequential injection to the liquid state of the last generation is having big problems, except for the initial calibration then settled brilliantly from the installer...ultimately what makes a lot and the quality? the plant itself that determines the life of the engine and the various issues
As far as my personal experience, I can indicate more purchase louis vuitton? of the valves and seats valve on the car in Japan, however, depends very much on the type of use of the client, you notice less wear and tear on vehicles and less-exploited (use to rev up the engine more? low,the motor load is low).
Moreover, I can say that with the use of an oiler specific distances of 100 thousand Miles to see the difference.
napo2000
31-10-2013, 16:19
in the workshop multi-methane plant, the original has burned a valve at 110000 km I think the problem is also due to the malfunction of the hydraulic tappets, which sometimes remain hanged, and the valve does not close well also the material of the valve and the tilt of the corners of the seal between the seat and the mushroom valve count, if you look at the old petrol engines had angles close to 45 degrees, instead now you go ir? close to 30 in this way, if the valve does not ? perfectly centered on the seat does not close regularly
max
enzopezzano
15-11-2013, 09:18
Work authorized Fiat of Moncalieri, in the province of Turin, the problems these ciofeche cng and lpg have many, definitely too many, apart from the usual problems of the injectors that you are nailing,and if they are not those of the gas are those of the gasoline why? gasoline there walk ever, the case pi? "beautiful" on a Bravo 1.4 16v with 12000 km ? arrived in the workshop turning 3 and in the diagnosis misfire cyl.1 after you have replaced the coil, spark plugs, and have not changed anything, I test compression and.........the needle of the instrument does not move even a millimeter. The moral of the fairy tale of the two valves of the exhaust loose at the met?. To you the conclusion.
Guys me x fiat whole life... And machines, lpg and cng only a very big false economy! Every time I have to fix a car to lpg or cng I do the sign of the cross cn the left hand!! The absolute worst?? Me X daewoo chevrolet.
ergiaguaro
28-01-2014, 12:33
Guys, the problems are two in much the quality? fuel to sell it, enrich it with tar and ammonia to increase the specific weight and in the process of transformation from a liquid state to a gaseous (LPG), which is the form that wonderful jam that blocks the injectors and lung , then the second and the calibration of the system wrong that the increase of the temperatures in the combustion chamber then there are some car type toyota that year in the cylinder head and the seats and valve guides of incompatible materials with increase in temperature and therefore cause problems closing and adjustment of them, but this only happens after 100000 km facts gpl
blackwolf76
28-01-2014, 20:03
Kia cee'd to the gpl, 60000 km, and burnt valves...
I'm fixing these days.
ergiaguaro
28-01-2014, 20:14
What color were the candles rossiccie, the car was the first to open the head that the system was installed under
blackwolf76
28-01-2014, 21:34
What color were the candles rossiccie, the car was the first to open the head that the system was installed under
Plant brc installed at the new car, the valves are all red as obvious a sign of too high temperature in the combustion chamber. The spark plugs are good given that they have replaced just before bring me the car.
Anyway, the car was left with very little compression, then off to a minimum and performance pitiful...
ergiaguaro
28-01-2014, 22:11
Bad calibration of lpg also check the catalytic converter with the probes
carlo abarth
28-01-2014, 23:32
my installer on the cars of the latest generation is designed to be a dispenser of oil speciifco to lubricate the valve seats!!I believe that the best prevention is sgasare the car after consumption of a full gas or petrol fuel petrol!!
ergiaguaro
29-01-2014, 00:11
The dispenser of oil should theoretically do what you say but really? send the car to the mixture .... The problem with many distributors even sell the system do all they can also tune the cars with standard maps and here are the results ..... From the same car the map can change, and then also the carburation and then we remember that we are working with 150 octane cold and hot with 100 octane
cinqueturbo
29-01-2014, 10:48
The dispenser of oil should theoretically do what you say but really? send the car to the mixture .... The problem with many distributors even sell the system do all they can also tune the cars with standard maps and here are the results ..... From the same car the map can change, and then also the carburation and then we remember that we are working with 150 octane cold and hot with 100 octane
ergiaguaro why? there would be this change in octane between cold & hot?
ergiaguaro
29-01-2014, 10:57
The gpl ? in the liquid phase at -4 degrees with about 12 bar, and the reducer to the task to transform the gaseous phase through the water of the engine ....... in fact, the problem is solved with a system in the liquid phase see vialle or prins +20 hp, but it is not cheap
cinqueturbo
29-01-2014, 11:11
The gpl ? in the liquid phase at -4 degrees with about 12 bar, and the reducer to the task to transform the gaseous phase through the water of the engine ....... in fact, the problem is solved with a system in the liquid phase see vialle or prins +20 hp, but it is not cheap
I see more? as a change of the fuel mixture,
and not numbers of octane..
it is clear that a cold liquid has a different behavior..
but the octane is calculated on the basis of the point of detonation of the fuel..
and dir? pi? there are only two test benches all over the world and are found in the USA,
and it is a motor with a dimension to vary the compression and advance and other various tests that there is a way to test the behavior of the fuel..
and I think the evidence you should do is always to operating temperatures..
as an optimum fuel should be made of a warm engine, no? maybe you make corrections to cold temperature, but what we interrasse and 90?..
ergiaguaro
29-01-2014, 11:26
In fact, the control unit of the gpl manages the fuel mixture based on the temperature, but then you have to deal with the strategy of that of gasoline ? different in the pi? if the calibration is incorrect, there are other problems
Riccardo#28
30-01-2014, 09:33
lancia kappa engine 2.0 turbo 5valvole.. exhaust valve burned 150kkm; the rig was an icom in the liquid phase.
the idea that to do as much of the quality? of the facility and especially the calibration of the latter
ergiaguaro
30-01-2014, 09:37
That type of system does not have a true control unit is therefore not manageable
Riccardo#28
30-01-2014, 09:37
the system in the liquid phase ? IN THEORY, the solution to many problems (also performance), in practice those icom have always given a lot of problems, even on the subaru that the hope of the series.
for those who said that the jappo suffer from the gpl: I had a fiat primera 1.6 sucked in to the gpl, and I scrapped with 260kkm, most of which are covered, in fact, to the gpl. the system was simple and to the gas phase
ergiaguaro
30-01-2014, 13:53
the system in the liquid phase ? IN THEORY, the solution to many problems (also performance), in practice those icom have always given a lot of problems, even on the subaru that the hope of the series.
for those who said that the jappo suffer from the gpl: I had a fiat primera 1.6 sucked in to the gpl, and I scrapped with 260kkm, most of which are covered, in fact, to the gpl. the system was simple and to the gas phase
the only systems in the liquid phase that work are vialle and prinz who have a true control unit and are the only ones that if you do not have hours of testing I don't sell them I will add now that they have the tsfi of the vag group
Riccardo#28
30-01-2014, 14:06
good to know ;)
we must then find the installer serious that avoids drilling and threading the intake manifold aluminum without disturbing..
giordano_mecc
02-02-2014, 19:30
The problem of the valves is not like many people say that the gas is dry and. then you burn.The problem lies in the fact that the gas would require an ignition advance more,marching with the same advances. gasoline combustion develops with a delay, and this implies that the exhaust gas temperature is highest, and then one strss more of the exhaust valves, which tend to be longer ,then, if we consider the asian cars with valves very small and the quality is not excellent, and that maybe marciano with games tappet very tight this does is make things worse.
guidotacco
02-02-2014, 20:22
The problem of the valves is not like many people say that the gas is dry and. then you burn.The problem lies in the fact that the gas would require an ignition advance more,marching with the same advances. gasoline combustion develops with a delay, and this implies that the exhaust gas temperature is highest, and then one strss more of the exhaust valves, which tend to be longer ,then, if we consider the asian cars with valves very small and the quality is not excellent, and that maybe marciano with games tappet very tight this does is make things worse.
in fact ? as you said,and the version of the oil that so many bring to me, you do not need is to mess up the combustion chamber
with preaccensioni.....
ergiaguaro
02-02-2014, 22:16
The one that says it was a good fit for the traditional system, but with the advent of fuel injection systems, gas, the strategy of the lpg ecu retards the injection but if the calibration is incorrect, the valves will burn my mercedes 200 kompressor has done 400 thousand km before it breaks
Riccardo#28
11-02-2014, 13:37
yeah, the exhaust valves begin to open when the combustion is not ? not finished yet, and you burn
A good solution would be to equip the engine with a special oil for the valves that lasts 20/30000 km,practically ? a bottle with a tube that goes into the intake and if it sucks it alone,is adjusted by the amount? and zero problems.
The flashlube does not resolve the problem, the retarded, and just, and with the cost that has almost not worth the effort.
It's like the injection of gas at high rpm. It increases management costs, which will lengthens life, but the seats are sunk, however, if the engine ? among those who "suffer" the GPL...
might as well wait and when it will be? now to redo the head with the offices of special, and it solves the problem once and for all!
this is a topic that is too generic. you should treat type vehicle and year of manufacture.easy to say a methane plant will burn the valves
only a jackass can' say so'
machines to cng, I have seen a few with the valves destroyed I quote a customer with multiple 270000km and has not done anything taken out of the clutch and belts....for? I have a workshop and a mini-1,4 lpg with 120000 and last night removed the head and found the valve burned
Much depends on the fuel mixture. For? there are cars type 16 Nissan quasquai that on those there are
Actually the problems of sealing valves. For? what I say we should not make the whole of a bunch grass.
cronoprima
09-11-2014, 18:59
my father has a vitara 92, with the system in the old generation. putting an additional filter of the gas, passing it on to petrol always before turning it off and putting 100 g of oil in a full from time to time, today has 250000km and it should be that ? a beauty
datatron
16-12-2014, 22:45
Manufacturers of lpg and cng have lists of cars that do not recommend strongly the transformation on some cars, and the nissan quasqai it is between these
nmclogandci
06-05-2015, 09:15
the ideal would be to buy cars that have fitted LPG installation from the factory, these have engine cilinder head optimized from the design phase
Also the ford fiesta 1200 suffers much of the failure of the valve seats, two of my clients have arrived to do more or less 50000 thousand miles before the failure of the valve seats
In the workshop they are the past of Nissan LPG series...the last a couple of weeks ago had all the exhaust valves, which are literally consumed!of course, homes damaged and the cylinder head was completely redone...the car comes out of the house without a dispenser of oil that the customer has decided now to mount in order to lengthen the life of the valves and seats of the same...other cases on the tucson and sportage 2.0 LPG, which in practice will mount the same engine...
many used oil to cool the valves!!!
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