STEP 2 Alfa 156 Crosswagon 150CV

[156crosswagon]

Hello all , after having passed the first step = delete the EGR , I would like to start studying a map for my car, I read alcume maps, and start to figure out where to go to modificxare parameters , the first to do it for? I would like to follow some of the guides to better understand the results that are obtained. could you direct me to some discussion where maybe there are explanations type step by step guide ?
Also I was wondering, I ruled out the EGR and reducing the graphics to the addresses that I have been sugeriti , but as you f? to know, given that there are controls outside the map ?

[SandroMarciano]

Answer to the last question, or you have the damos (and you know what to look for) or do you know what shape you may have, and go by trial and error, or use the programs, but they often carry consequences, and not always do a good job.
to help you follow the map of tidus, even if the ecu ? different from your logic ? like that!!!

[156crosswagon]

Thanks a lot , ma..........I have half a mind to these damos, are files that travel in parallel to the file .ori ? Can I ask some question in pi? ?

[SandroMarciano]

questions as much as you want answers to what I know and what I can answer :)
The damos there would like one for each number of sw and hw, of each unit, but ? gi? very if we have one referred to the same unit that we are interested in, in your case edc16c8.
Then you work by comparing the 2d curves of the file with those of the damos, l? then we go on to read the descriptions of the various maps.

[156crosswagon]

I imagined it would work so well? ! Just a clarification , my mounts a 16c39. So if I had the damos of the 16c39 and using WinOLS to find the description of the EGR control I could see the address , and go on the 2d of ECM and check the curves ?

[SandroMarciano]

yes, but the addresses are access on split-level, and then not find them that way, otherwise you could apply the damos directly in your file ori... you have to recognise it visually from the 2d (a ****th e geometry of the curve). I hope I explained it well.

[156crosswagon]

For example , I now know the 2 hills of the egr , if I had to find another ecu, I should scroll all the 2d up to find the similar ? the address of my 16c39 ? the same for all 16c39 or varies according to the hardware ?

[SandroMarciano]

varies according to n? sw let's say that roughly the position remains that, or the fact that you will find after the maps "pedal", and the first example of the torque limiters. Slowly, we shall make the eye!

[156crosswagon]

I understand, now? I want to start to throw down? a first version of the map for my ecu ! I try to plain rip offs here and there to see where to improve , what to start ?

[SandroMarciano]

tracking the table torque/IQ, then fixed the diesel that you want to inject, and according to that table, the torque request.

[garret]

sandro, your interventions ? like liquid gold to me, I try to absorb everything that you explain it, very good contribution thanks

[tidus1985]

to know how to change the ecu, you have to first understand his way of working.

The fundamental point of departure ? the map tinj, that is, the map that tells you how much remains open l injector to inject tot diesel fuel total pressure ? the main, and from there it all begins, and then to the ecu, of course; you press let's say 50% of the pedal, the pedal map law that ask 200nm to 50% of the pedal, ok, goes to see what is the torque on the map conversion diesel call from the ecm "quantity of fuel injected", sees them, e.g. 2500 to 200nm 40mm3 of diesel, then goes to see on the map rail pressure at 2500 rpm with a request 40mm3 how much rail pressure is required from the pump, e.g. 1000 bar, now go to see on the map the times " - injection time"as it must remain open from the injector to give 40mm3 to 1000 bar, that's it, once you understand the operation and how to go touch up the various maps, you can refine with the change to the payments and where they are needed, and the various limiters, because a change of this kind requires the release of the limiters for diesel otherwise not otieni large increments. You can also make another type of change, much easier for newbies, moddi maps the pedal up to where you like it, of course, you'll have a limit of about 80-83 mm3 limiter, at that point, work a bit on the rail pressure but little, and not at low rpm and loads because the pump draws power, and increases the injection time on the basis of how much fuel you intend to inject, say in the last 3 steps of the required diesel fuel because for values lower than required to map the pedal does the rest, you can only work on the high values that are limited over by the limiters, obviously, is always working on the map turbo and limiters,

[SandroMarciano]

to know how to change the ecu, you have to first understand his way of working.

The fundamental point of departure ? the map tinj, that is, the map that tells you how much remains open l injector to inject tot diesel fuel total pressure ? the main, and from there it all begins, and then to the ecu, of course; you press let's say 50% of the pedal, the pedal map law that ask 200nm to 50% of the pedal, ok, goes to see what is the torque on the map conversion diesel call from the ecm "quantity of fuel injected", sees them, e.g. 2500 to 200nm 40mm3 of diesel, then goes to see on the map rail pressure at 2500 rpm with a request 40mm3 how much rail pressure is required from the pump, e.g. 1000 bar, now go to see on the map the times " - injection time"as it must remain open from the injector to give 40mm3 to 1000 bar, that's it, once you understand the operation and how to go touch up the various maps, you can refine with the change to the payments and where they are needed, and the various limiters, because a change of this kind requires the release of the limiters for diesel otherwise not otieni large increments...

Perfect!
The rest of the speech, let him to the general culture here is not aimed only at the final result, but to"harmony"
(sorry for the philosophical discourse)

[cicciogsr]

are not agree on some things if you change the pedal and lim torque as you say, to 80 you get there why? gi? ? all limited to about 65-70... the rail, you can leave ori or the max repaint it as vuoio lengthen the time...for rideurre some factors that retard the injection and ignition, but not ? the case of deepen....the times you can change them, not only to high flow but low depends on what kind of map do you want to do why? up to a certain point if you don't unlock all the request will be? always limited and so you have to distort the flow in the zone of maximum torque, if you want a drive aggressive...

[cicciogsr]

then I forgot another thing you can set a huge scope of diesel but if this not ? injected in the right moment where you will have only one map bland as the shooting and agressivit? who do you give? increase only in the regime of maximum power...

[tidus1985]

then I forgot another thing you can set a huge scope of diesel but if this not ? injected in the right moment where you will have only one map bland as the shooting and agressivit? who do you give? increase only in the regime of maximum power...

and that fumera like a killer :D

[paolo159]

you can also sail from the map the pedal and then go to retouch all the other maps related... seen that the edc16 regulate the all-in-function of the pair, I find it the most? simple but in the end if always a subjective matter..

[156crosswagon]

Thank you for the valuable interventions
Here I am again ............
taking a cue from one map copied from another car already? prepared, I ran the increases differed for the 2 units,trying to learn what had changed. c'? someone willing to would like to give him a look , cos? my learning will be? pi? fast !
The only things I have changed are torque limiters in first and second gear..........my 156 ? a crosswagon Q4 I avoid always tirale the neck in these 2 gears to not feel the effect of the rally on the poor torsen.........even if in the snow ? tasty hear it working ;) , cos? I ? seemed logical to leave the original limit ! For the rest, the reasoning of Titus, it seems to me ? was followed.........

I enclose a file .ori and .mod

[tidus1985]

downloaded tomorrow, we can do a blind eye and let me tell you! ;D

[156crosswagon]

Tidus but, you know, say something ? Others also are welcome .........

[biondo83]

[156crosswagon]

Reading here and I whale for the head thing, the MOD file from which I took the increments ? it is of my same ecu and the same engine , but a 159 .........which ? was removed the filtrone anti crap, maybe ? better if I put the gains manually, following the council of tidus ?

[SandroMarciano]

I have seen the map, but we are not there... apart from that 30cv takes them if you correct with the BIC, on a libretto written 150*180... but this ? a map without logic, say of the go pedal and limiter pair (even if a bit too assassin against the flywheel), but the rest ? without the policy, and demonstrates how ? needless to all that if you are to teach... the maps lambda are without a policy, the advance payments as well, the turbo decreases the duty cycle and then increases to the star map objective to... this? we're not just...

[156crosswagon]

Forgive the ingnoranza , but what you want to say and that the owner of the 159 to which I copied should not sleep a peaceful night's sleep ?
Or that such increases on my do not go well !
Then , let's start from 0 ! You tell me that the only things that are passed are Map the pedal and torque limiter , even though there should be more?? soft right ? The address of the +30 hp left puzzled me, too, ? for this that I came to this forum and I decided to studiami the maps on my own, which was approved, but without putting it on the bench', c'? a few empirical formula which tells us how many horses you earn with determitati increments ?

[admin]

Forgive the ingnoranza , but what you want to say and that the owner of the 159 to which I copied should not sleep a peaceful night's sleep ?
Or that such increases on my do not go well !
Then , let's start from 0 ! You tell me that the only things that are passed are Map the pedal and torque limiter , even though there should be more?? soft right ? The address of the +30 hp left puzzled me, too, ? for this that I came to this forum and I decided to studiami the maps on my own, which was approved, but without putting it on the bench', c'? a few empirical formula which tells us how many horses you earn with determitati increments ?

I think that the most secure way, and the dynamometer, and all the rest, and indicative

[156crosswagon]

I imagined............ ok , I reset everything and go, at least cos? the mistakes are of my own and if someone will make me? to understand where mistake, the learning will be? best !

[156crosswagon]

Then , followed the clues , I made the following mod. starting from the pedal map :
-INCREASE IN TORQUE LIMITER
-Increase MAP PEDAL
-Increase in fuel
-Increase Rail pressure limiter
-Increase Rail pressure
-Increase injection time
all with +10% , I do not put hand to the turbo!
I enclose work

[SandroMarciano]

I'm sorry, but if you change all of the 10% even I lose time to see the map, read the discussions that we are on your engine, then let us help you...
If you look at setting a goal of diesel and then you ageguano limiters (torque and flow rate of fuel in order to get what you want.

[156crosswagon]

Cos? for? make learning impossible.......... in this same discussion, I was given a guide line , now I have to depart from each other in pi? ......."do not lose time if I have increased by 10%" what does it mean ? Too much ? Little? .........The increases that I have done according to my logic is right, but if the logic does not ? that then I raise my hands, the only thing ? try and try again until someone in this forum says......."you're on the right path".......

Someone I could link to a discussion on my engine ?

[SandroMarciano]

https://www.professionalchiptuning.net/showthread.php?3076-Parere-mappa-159-1-9-Mjet-150cv
https://www.professionalchiptuning.net/showthread.php?3173-Un-parere-per-la-mia-prima-mappa-159-1900-16v-150CV
https://www.professionalchiptuning.net/showthread.php?3155-EDC16C-impariamola!
https://www.professionalchiptuning.net/showthread.php?2883-Mappa-Alfa-147-1-9-JTDm-120cv
good read

[156crosswagon]

Thanks do you know if they were useful

[tidus1985]

Cos? for? make learning impossible.......... in this same discussion, I was given a guide line , now I have to depart from each other in pi? ......."do not lose time if I have increased by 10%" what does it mean ? Too much ? Little? .........The increases that I have done according to my logic is right, but if the logic does not ? that then I raise my hands, the only thing ? try and try again until someone in this forum says......."you're on the right path".......

Someone I could link to a discussion on my engine ?

read the discussion on my 147, such as managing the ecu the engine ? identical, you will see, I also started like you

[156crosswagon]

Have you tried to see my mod. ? at least to see if something I did well !

[tidus1985]

view of your mod, still, there we are, 1760 bar on the rail are too many, and don't mean anything, and anyway does not come to us, we are the bit of restriction to the 1700's, then you're sure that the map you pedal you changed is the one that uses your machine, I will all them all the same so you are not wrong, including break point, the map time for a change of the time, we can stand, I've seen peggo, map copnversione iq, the one called "the quantity of the fuel injected" ? needless to touch it if you don't do a mod where you cut out the limiters of diesel, so deception still more the ecu already, no, we are understand anything.

So now we start to degrees, change to all maps pedal so as to give from 2250 to 4500 rpm and the same pair, and leaves a hole the percentages, I speak to you to pedal 100%then the last 4 axes, axes to the previous experiment with the increments and see which ones you like the most as sensitivity pedal for your driving style.

map relief pair, obviously superior to the map the pedal to the corresponding values otherwise serves no purpose

map times, parts 50mm3 and 600bar ? increases from a 10 to a max of a 12%, not going to change the anticipicosi inject about 87mm3 of diesel when you ask for 80mm3, then evolvendoci we could expect even more, but for now, let's start so, better few but good

the turbo increases across the map to 100 points, the limiters if they are larger the maximum value reached not touch them

rail, I advise you to work on the rail not before 1750 rpm because the high pressure pump mabgia horses, the more pressure require more consumes in terms of power dissipation, the ports 40-50mm3, first I don't think that the servant should keep the gold for now, tando readiness at low and medium loads and schemes, we worked on the map with the pedal, increases to a maximum of 5-6%, which corriponde to a value on 1600bar of 1680-1700 bar not more than that is not needed, you could even try with rail ori, can you see how you are better, I personally always carry a 1680 1700 bar, limiters aumentali around the table as on the main map, you don't need any other maps in addition to those listed on the driver part of the limiters diesel but with the mod on the times that you do not need to modify them.

[156crosswagon]

Hello , I have done the changes that you told me, I hope you understand !

I enclose both the mod ver.2 that the ori .

I wanted to ask you a further thing, the maps fumosit? not to be retouched ?

[tidus1985]

Tomorrow I look at it, map, lambda are limiters for diesel in the function of intake air by changing the tinj ( map-stroke diesel) ? a change without a sense

[156crosswagon]

I understand, therefore if I change the time the diesel fuel does not need to touch the lambda ! At least that I'm not going to work on advances right ?

[tidus1985]

No you're right, there are 2 ways of mapping, or cheating the ECU, telling him that injection 80mm3 of fuel and in truth? they inject ir? increasing the times, or increases only maps that pedal finding the limiters of diesel out of the driver and informing the ECU cheiiniettiva pi? diesel. You're imbroiando the ECU now, so it would be cm's useless to go to toxxare a limiter if the modified values that the ecu USES them already

[SandroMarciano]

link removed
this ? the quantity? diesel fuel is the maximum that injects really no tricks at the time.

[msport (exil77grande)]

link removed
this ? the quantity? diesel fuel is the maximum that injects really no tricks at the time.

you can attach pictures to internal and not external, and you should know that,the user will be able to see them as they have all completely other that is, when will be the time.

[SandroMarciano]

you can attach pictures to internal and not external, and you should know that,the user will be able to see them as they have all completely other that is, when will be the time.

I'm sorry, but that was not my intention to attach them on the external link to avoid the limits, but since? if I attach with the system of the forum then they are resized, and there you read the most? nothing...

To every way ? difficult to give some advice without even being able to post a photo... not talking about a map made, we are talking about a photo with highlighted values of an original map...

[156crosswagon]

I agree fully !
No one st? trying to exchange maps, we are in the full ethical sense of the forum , namely the learning, but with these limitations any user ? forced to squeeze in the discussions of others , throwing anything, even without sense, so you can get the unlock ! There are other forums on the net that deal with the same arguments and the limitations are a lot less , allowing users with a learning ir? fast ! This ? only the opinion of a novice in the industry fails to make progress !

[tidus1985]

However, I say that if you want to learn even addresses only written to serve much, and posting your impressions, questions and anything else You get in a hurry to 80 messages my word that we are past!

[156crosswagon]

Ok let's go back in the discussion............ but have you seen my map ? :D

[tidus1985]

Still no that you are a hospital with my wife, as soon as I get home I look at you

[tidus1985]

here I am, a subsidiary, map the pedal is not good for anything, because increases at full load only from 3000 rpm onwards does that make sense?, by emno gas parzializzati and increases up to 400nm from 2000 rpm onwards, the rail pressure does not increase to the rpm under 1500 rpm, you do have to strain only p?iu the pump that requires only p?power without giving you benefits to the rest seems ok, do these fixes ripostala that the double check again and then try

[156crosswagon]

Thanks , this evening I will change ! The rail I have modified under 1500 as a gi? recommended, as they are one thing I don't understand , but should I set it to 2000 400nm but at what percentage of the pedal ? I made increases on percentages , 1500-2000 5% and 2500-full scale 10% ! The map limiter, cup ? ok ?

[msport (exil77grande)]

I agree fully !
No one st? trying to exchange maps, we are in the full ethical sense of the forum , namely the learning, but with these limitations any user ? forced to squeeze in the discussions of others , throwing anything, even without sense, so you can get the unlock ! There are other forums on the net that deal with the same arguments and the limitations are a lot less , allowing users with a learning ir? fast ! This ? only the opinion of a novice in the industry fails to make progress !

[156crosswagon]

An intervention worthy of an administrator ........................

Titus here is the edit that I were advising you , I hope you understand what I've suggested !

Thanks

[msport (exil77grande)]

An intervention worthy of an administrator ........................

Titus here is the edit that I were advising you , I hope you understand what I've suggested !

Thanks

I did not understand your answer,if you have something to say, write freely your thoughts.

[tidus1985]

no, titus,...tidus :D
you're almost there, but the section torque limiter maps and the pedal still do not go well, watch them and see if you have followed my advice, I'll give you a clue,all the gas you'll be fine if you feel an increase in tangible only above 3000 rpm? torque limiter, don't touch it under 1500 rpm and up to 2000 rpm and go easy on

[156crosswagon]

This Sunday I did some tests, until you get to this test that I attach !
I do not mind , nice boost , fumosit? almost absent, the engine ir? sliding to the gas closed .

Opinions ?

[tidus1985]

very good map, I'm glad that you have listened to the advice, the last advice I give you, check on the limiter of maximum torque at 1750 girir, it seems to me u little high,c omincia from 490nm after 2000 rpm, so to keep the flywheel, tnto at that values do not you get there that you stop limiters before, but comuncuq up to 2000're a bottom, then from 2000 rpm and then go quiet

[SandroMarciano]

very good map, I'm glad that you have listened to the advice, the last advice I give you, check on the limiter of maximum torque at 1750 girir, it seems to me u little high,c omincia from 490nm after 2000 rpm, so to keep the flywheel, tnto at that values do not you get there that you stop limiters before, but comuncuq up to 2000're a bottom, then from 2000 rpm and then go quiet
As you said the couple is eventually limited by the limitayori of diesel, but be careful that the scheme in which the group flywheel - clutch sforza of pi? ? at 2000 rpm, where the machine reaches its maximum torque

[156crosswagon]

Ok , this evening retouching a p? and then I'll know the feelings !

I have made the correction , obviously the feelings were unchanged , to preserve and maybe in the next version just a p? also a step above you 2000 ! To return to the sensations the machine up to 3000 salt pi? effective but feels a p? the lack of the back , certainly due to the lack of diesel. In summary, I increased the rail pressure of 5% as the injection times , theoretically it should get a p? pi? diesel right ? Now to fine-tune the thrust should also increase the "deal? fuel injected" ? The map that I can see from ECMT ? By doing this I have to start working on the maps "phase injection" ? And maps the Lambda ?

[SandroMarciano]

the "injection phase" let her ori, the ecm so call? the egr, the map lambda if you change the injection times that way "barbarian" leave them gold, and the last thing the pressure of fuel does not increase the diesel fuel, the only effect that has ? to lower the injection times, but for a normal map does not ? necessary, does this change if one needs to inject 120mm^3/i (then turbo, plus, etc, etc)

[156crosswagon]

Then if I want to increase again a p? coma you recommend me ?

[SandroMarciano]

I would forsake the change of the times (at least for the first stage) and would share looking for the limiters of diesel fuel (which are now in the public domain)... tomorrow will see? if I have a moment to write to addresses

[156crosswagon]

Maybe........... :)

But sorry, you say that the injection phase ? the egr in the ecm......................but then, the map "deal? gas re-introduced"? ? In the pi? maps "phase inieziione" values of type -1.20 +2.4 , to me, seem to be degrees !!!!!!!! Or my driver in the ecm ? phony or are there things that square !

[msport (exil77grande)]

Maybe........... :)

But sorry, you say that the injection phase ? the egr in the ecm......................but then, the map "deal? gas re-introduced"? ? In the pi? maps "phase inieziione" values of type -1.20 +2.4 , to me, seem to be degrees !!!!!!!! Or my driver in the ecm ? phony or are there things that square !


quantity gas reintroduced always has to do with the egr valve but don't confuse the 5 maps-injection phase base map

[SandroMarciano]

1cc0f8
1cf3ec
these are the main! gi? with these and the original times feel the difference!

[tidus1985]

then, listen to what is said sandro, found a map of the 120 hp, you can go to my discussion and see through addresses the surge of diesel, on your map are identical, you have a couple more, but then, once recognised, we can help you, ? a change much better