View The Full Version : Modification times of an overboost: yes - no
dvdtuning
16-11-2012, 13:33
Hello all, I wanted to ask the pi? experts and also the less if they have never touched the timing of an overboost and what results they have achieved with the edit.
C'? who says that you do damage, and c'? who makes a simple change map type turbo to increase the opening out of the turbo...
for what it's? I change to an overboost and do if you s? how to make her acting especially on the pid control initially and then on an overboost map....
if you do not act in this way, the press turbo not follow? never as much as we say we do..
magi1984
16-11-2012, 14:13
usually do not touch them ever, I tried it on my car to touch them, and at first sight, the car was more? reactive because the turbo was under pressure before, and more? for a long time...for? not ? the case of touching them, according to me, on standard maps
msport (exil77grande)
16-11-2012, 14:35
from my experience I can tell you that if it is the original machine with only a map and you want to do something more particular and complete should touch them, but not much, and on the condition that the pressure is not excessive, otherwise the peak squirts too high,if it is machine processed type turbo plus etc you can raise but you have to calibrate all monitoring pressure constant, and the peak would otherwise do damage easily.
the fact ? that you can't? reduce all in favour of, or opposed to change an overboost....
the question and far more complex ? it deserves an in-depth study....
this ? just my thought on the topic.....
good continuation to all...
dvdtuning
16-11-2012, 19:32
the fact ? that you can't? reduce all in favour of, or opposed to change an overboost....
the question and far more complex ? it deserves an in-depth study....
this ? just my thought on the topic.....
good continuation to all...
In fact, my I mean ? know if they modda, and those who do not modda does so with full knowledge of the cause, having done the tests and trials and their theory....? normal that the change must be studied in detail!
franco75
16-11-2012, 20:11
I answer for as I want the car, I would like the turbo pressure constant and an overboost I honestly do not care a lot, when I ask for the power I want, and not only for 3 seconds. It was nothing for me an overboost
msport (exil77grande)
16-11-2012, 23:22
I answer for as I want the car, I would like the turbo pressure constant and an overboost I honestly do not care a lot, when I ask for the power I want, and not only for 3 seconds. It was nothing for me an overboost
in your case you can also moddare the negative an overboost.
do not you touch me you're not working on the pressure that I know of
dvdtuning
20-11-2012, 12:07
do not you touch me you're not working on the pressure that I know of
on what then? that I know works on geometry, so do you want or do not want to go to vary the pressure peaks....
on some cars, e.g. those of the vag group when you vary the map turbo it works even on the map N75 solenoid command....and it seems to me that maps an overboost does not c'? n? ..so going by logic the latter, I believe, vary really the time to boost or an overboost engine CR....
I have tried to modify the contrary,in small increments, but I tried...according to me, if done with knowledge and a thing possible...
franco75
20-12-2012, 20:41
in addition to this map, no one has ever tried to work on the PID parameters of the pressure controller?
these maps calls an overboost represent the position that should have the geometry, then the control unit should "chase" the pressure present in the map. The pursuit of pressure to the avr? a slowness in reaching the correct value, hence the effect of an overboost can also be obtained by changing the PID parameters that sometimes are found on the DAMOS.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controllori_pid
to edit a pid control ? easier said than done...I do not s? explain well how it works why is this ? quite complicated, but many tuner even the famed s? who prefer not to touch it because of a certain complexity....
franco75
20-12-2012, 23:17
I've never modified on the ecu, but I've modified on petrochemical plants, doesn't it ? easy but believe me that you can do things much more complex.
It is important to have a clear idea of what you need to do, you do not need to make major changes to the parameters ameno that you are not changing the turbine.
In this case it would be appropriate to change the PID to avoid oscillations or inspection time is too long (effect an overboost)
exact franco..the change of the pid serves especially when you sotituiscono turbines (vgt with other large...more
not have the effect you describe you very pronounced and almost out of control with the management of the ori of the car when this happens many tuners prefer not to go crazy with the pid control of the ecu, but "bypass" the problem by mounting a controller vgt external...type the arduino for example....
I personally change them almost always when I try to l drive, you will see immediately the difference in the readiness and never had us in the modify indeed, according to me and a side dish that goes well when you're programming a control unit, of course, done in the correct manner without overdoing it
I normally on standard maps I prefer not to work on the timing of an overboost, but at the request of the customer on the maps pi? thrusts
I change them only at low x the speech 0/100
then I let them golds.
FidodidoTuning
26-12-2012, 20:43
I touch them, almost always
Touched good only to take them anke 5 hp...then of course there are machines where should you touch them or not...
dvdtuning
27-12-2012, 20:23
The change of pace to the map turbo? the same increments?
FidodidoTuning
27-12-2012, 20:37
Hand in hand, and cannot
I don't understand what you mean
Can I change the management in such a way ke enter a couple, and stretches more...
Depends on the machine what you want to achieve.
Work on almost all of the map...
dvdtuning
27-12-2012, 20:41
For the same pace, I mean the same points max to change? example if from the 100 to the turbo from the same at the time of an overboost?
FidodidoTuning
27-12-2012, 21:00
no,they are two completely different things
in the map turbo,touch prex
in an overboost change the % of the duty cycle of the solenoid valve and thus the prex turbine
everything is monitored from the diagnosis to the hand
bobracing
31-12-2012, 13:28
sorry if I'm intruding, according to me, the tempo map of an overboost does not exist, the one that you referred to as an overboost ? the map of the solenoid valve N75, expressed in % of opening of the passage depression, and not in seconds or fraction of seconds.
1)As a test, take a map ori, touch only the map " an overboost" and you will see that nothing changes
2)As a test, take a map ori, touch of 100 points on the map only pressure turbo and you will see that the pressure rises
you to the considerations
FidodidoTuning
31-12-2012, 14:03
In fact, if you read my previous post I talk about % duty
Touching the ke change.
bobracing
31-12-2012, 14:22
In fact, if you read my previous post I talk about % duty
Touching the ke change.
if you read and do the tests from me described, you will understand that better, if they touch only N75 NOT raise the turbo pressure, remove the ecu the chance? adjust
ergiaguaro
31-12-2012, 17:50
In my opinion, should be increased only in some areas while in others, should be left to the original otherwise you may not hear the turbine when it goes into the pressure, but is in peak continuously
I agree with the two optics of thought:
1. to change them would be to give that little icing on the cake, that outline that helps the map to be appreciated more;
2. you should still tell the customer that ? been made, even if small, a variation of the kind cos? to make him understand that map ? slightly more? boost!!! anyway, both should be touched up a little!
Team electronics
02-03-2013, 10:01
I touch them only if it is a machine with a single map!!!! Otherwise nadas
I usually do not touch only if you actually would like to give it more elasticity usually, however, a little bit at the expense of the turbo that works in most,but a light thing does nothing
maku1977
02-03-2013, 12:16
I leave them ori....
according to me, an increase that goes in between the 2% and 4% should not affect the use of the turbo over time. What do you think?
I touch them only if it is a machine with a single map!!!! Otherwise nadas
what do you mean by "the machine with only the map"?
Team electronics
03-03-2013, 09:01
what do you mean by "the machine with only the map"?
I mean if you have all golds, but if it has a different turbo then nn the touch!!!
but a car which is a map in 95% of cases he has everything the original, unless the owner has not changed anything. Or am I wrong?
Then you say: if the car ? all original then touches those values in the map, right?
Team electronics
04-03-2013, 07:32
it is perfect absolutely right!!! But sometimes I have to map the machines that have the turbine is changed or another, in that case tend not to touch it!!!
received. Therefore it is advisable to always ask the owner for a history of the minimum of the car. It would also be interesting to understand how you move if you get a car with 100.000km, with 200.000km or 30.000km. The mapped in the same way?
Team electronics
05-03-2013, 18:37
certainly better to ask the person directly!!! But anyway, are you sure that if he made some changes and is the first to tell you
and ****llo to km how do you do? Always in the same way or you will be moderated?
Team electronics
06-03-2013, 08:47
More than Km always ask me as it combined the clutch!!!
More than Km always ask me as it combined the clutch!!!
In addition to being perhaps a trip before x to see a bit of the whole car in general! Eh Eh!
Team electronics
07-03-2013, 07:51
As well on this one you are right, and I'll tell you more! Better that before the check-up generic checking to see if there are errors in the ecu!!!!
And that's why? I have a general diagnosis! Eh Eh!
Team electronics
12-03-2013, 08:19
Better that way!!! Wrapped, but not all, people with the excuse of the map starts to leave the problems of the car, and perhaps laid the blame on those who have made the map!!!!
franco75
12-03-2013, 09:18
in that case I would put the original map, and probably the money and a nice vfc
mattycar
12-03-2013, 09:29
Better that way!!! Wrapped, but not all, people with the excuse of the map starts to leave the problems of the car, and perhaps laid the blame on those who have made the map!!!!
to me ? success that a customer phoned me after 6 months why? it was burned out a light bulb and thought it was the fault of the mapping,another after a year he left the car outside in minus 20 degrees, and when he set in motion ? off in the street after 300 metres.(after you ? realized that he had not put the winter diesel)
until these things happen we begin to laugh... The best is when you come back and they tell you that you ? the route to the turbine because of the map! :=)
Team electronics
12-03-2013, 09:40
Unfortunately, people play on this!!! the light bulb, the diesel!!! Are absurd things, I always recommend to have a customer to the doc!!! Sure someone escapes!!!!
sportknight
12-03-2013, 11:00
to me, a friend told me that he had broken the turbine after I made the luca stanca on a 159,since I had to make him also the remapping but I had not had time, and then did not permit had yet entered he believed to be also rimappatamolto amicably I sent him to hell!!
Team electronics
12-03-2013, 11:30
Luckily a friend.... think a bit if it was a stranger what would have happened!! But you know, sometimes all of these "crap" you say after you have mapped a machine are due very much to the ignorance of the people, and caused also by the people who speaks in a manner offensive to those who map without knowing anything!!!
dvdtuning
12-03-2013, 13:49
you guys went OT the great!
gi? gi??? hi hi hi......
we return to the O. T.!!!! eh eh eh! I am in my first map them modificher? and prover? with or without the times changed.
msport (exil77grande)
12-03-2013, 23:51
to me, a friend told me that he had broken the turbine after I made the luca stanca on a 159,since I had to make him also the remapping but I had not had time, and then did not permit had yet entered he believed to be also rimappatamolto amicably I sent him to hell!!
I have heard a lot 159-croma 150 hp that after only luca stanca the first round break in the turbine.
yes, those are the Murphy's laws that are never wrong! eh eh eh!
sportknight
13-03-2013, 10:30
I have heard a lot 159-croma 150 hp that after only luca stanca the first round break in the turbine.
the beautiful to tell you the truth? and that the turbine did not break immediately but went the engine in auto-ignition, and fortunately succeeded? to turn it off....
luck instead ? was that actually? a few days before luca stanca had the same problem....
The turbine ? stuff that you can? break....and however, c'? always those people who if so breaks the air-conditioned ? the fault of the map!
However, they are not to change the boost.....species the GT1749V they break too easily....
SandroMarciano
13-03-2013, 18:26
I do I edit in the negative, with the use of the car the variable geometry often is loosened, and then the peak ? too uch gi? ori, if especially you add diesel fuel (abundant after tdc) then that goes out of the range of use... tried on my ex-turbine. Now with the turbine mod ? the state must intervene in these maps, otherwise the pressure is not saliva absolutely. However, I had to modify the PID controller, why? otherwise the turbine piccava to 1.6 (as I wanted) and then go back to 1.4, generandomi a hole supply each time you press pedal to the bottom.
Team electronics
15-03-2013, 08:40
I've never tried to change the boost in the negative!!! Nn understand just what benefits you can have!!! Even if I doubt that you have!!!
SandroMarciano
15-03-2013, 09:00
the fact will last a turbine, I'm not an advantage...
Chris156
15-03-2013, 12:15
Sandro negative? if, for example, at 3000 rpm and full load you have the 30% of opening the ports to zero or by a percentage?
SandroMarciano
15-03-2013, 12:50
usually I try to drop 100 points at a time and see how it reacts, I think that in the regulation it is necessary to proceed in an empirical way... usually to my goal ? to be able to hold the peak up to values of 0.1 bar above the map objective, then I have to check to diagnose if the valve opens and closes continuously or remains on a fixed percentage. In the case that does not converge it is necessary to retouch the PID controller
Chris156
15-03-2013, 13:07
Have you ever tried to put a zero in the total laps and see what happens?
SandroMarciano
15-03-2013, 17:51
no, but I do not care to try, I think that the result would be what would take appropriate action to continually PID controller to return the pressure around the set in the map.
I am convinced that the original time of an overboost should be fine! then depends also of which turbine we are talking about, and if one wants to take that much of a turbine, have to worry about, s? pressure and boost, but more importantly the EGT!
guidotacco
17-03-2013, 07:36
I am convinced that the original time of an overboost should be fine! then depends also of which turbine we are talking about, and if one wants to take that much of a turbine, have to worry about, s? pressure and boost, but more importantly the EGT!
are importatissimi also tours!otherwise collapses
SandroMarciano
17-03-2013, 09:34
I agree with guido heel.
The problem is that if you increase the fuel (especially the one injected after TDC). Then, in my opinion, from what I could see after 150000km many turbines you starano.
demolitionMan
17-03-2013, 13:25
I agree with guido heel.
The problem is that if you increase the fuel (especially the one injected after TDC). Then, in my opinion, from what I could see after 150000km many turbines you starano.
I agree.. I have noticed the ch and on the fiat this is what happens! I the boost, I leave the original when I know that I have customers picky and they want everything to last .But when they want the car to be pumped increase to 4-7% . I, with my car, I've done 150,000 km and now I feel that the turbine is ? slightly unbalanced.
Small question, what is it ? the map of fuel injection that regulates the flow rate of fuel injected after TDC?
thanks.
SandroMarciano
17-03-2013, 16:45
I do not think that there is a map that indicates the end of injection, end of injection should be calculated by knowing the time of injection and the advance
I always leave the original
maku1977
17-03-2013, 17:42
those maps.... I.... always gold
Sorry for the ignorance, but PMS and EGT what are they?
The Upper Dead point (which is the maximum height that the piston reaches)
Exaust Gas Temperature (Or the temperature of the exhaust gas)
dvdtuning
17-03-2013, 23:52
I agree.. I have noticed the ch and on the fiat this is what happens! I the boost, I leave the original when I know that I have customers picky and they want everything to last .But when they want the car to be pumped increase to 4-7% . I, with my car, I've done 150,000 km and now I feel that the turbine is ? slightly unbalanced.
Small question, what is it ? the map of fuel injection that regulates the flow rate of fuel injected after TDC?
thanks.
4/7% over the whole map? what kind of performance have you had?
in fact, it seems to me quite a bit exaggerated...
SandroMarciano
18-03-2013, 12:15
at times exaggerate ? disadvantageous, not always the turbo d? less lag, among other things, the jtd, for example, has a bit that limits the max percentage to 75%.
but there explodes the turbine?.....the cio? note that the gt1749mv ? delicate ehhhh
SandroMarciano
18-03-2013, 12:26
my 1749v travelling to 1.6 bar ? ruined in 5000km... (for this I am now very pi? careful with those maps...)
I have noticed that the turbine can? turn safely even at 1.8 ma peak!!! with a continuous pressure of 1.55 v? well, provided that you keep the EGT below 600 degrees!
demolitionMan
19-03-2013, 18:54
4/7% over the whole map? what kind of performance have you had?
well I see that the turbo is f? to hear more? and otherwise on the map thrust you feel that it's much better in performance! of course, if you only change the boost on the map ori, you hear almost nothing!
I do I change from 1100-1200 rpm's and gi? from the 10% of the load .
tidus1985
12-04-2013, 21:20
I found myself having to work on the timing of an overboost on my car a 147 1.9 jtdm 120cv, because after fitting downpipe and airbox with ramair, the pressure was raised to 0.3 bar 1.8 bar peak, and then put down to study the operation of the dutycile valve pierburg and its control in pwm related to map an overboost, as with the original map, the problem was not an issue, this is because having the downpipe there were fewer pressures, the same is true for the filter is more permeable allowing the suction of the best in the air, then back again to the subject of an overboost for me ? been necessary to go to modify this map in a devrescente and targeted because I had rpoblemi peak of 1.7 bar, even gas zoned type 50%, problems that arose with active cruise control on the climbs. all solved by rebuilding the map with an overboost from the ori that, watching it now is painful, the valve in the rest position by depression of the actuator, the actuator in the depression means profile low rpm of the turbine, and thus the maximum pressure by lowering the values in the map will increase the openings for the pwm valve opening several times on a single step lowers the depression is useful for maintaining the geometry and configuration,low speed and then we lower the pressure of the turbo compressor of an equal number of turns so values lower lower the speed of rise of pressure and the same pressure, and higher values increase it, everything in the complex inverse of management pwm valve pierburg.
Cristiano75
13-04-2013, 14:28
well I see that the turbo is f? to hear more? and otherwise on the map thrust you feel that it's much better in performance! of course, if you only change the boost on the map ori, you hear almost nothing!
I do I change from 1100-1200 rpm's and gi? from the 10% of the load .
The map in question "map an overboost" like all the other maps except that the pedal does not have as a reference % load..... The nomenclature of the ecm, whatever the version ? painful.....
The 2 axes X and Y are diesel fuel(x) and rpm(y).. if you touch the values inside the map updated the reference axis >> X..
I edit only a couple of columns... the rest, sometimes the agreement with those moddate.... depends on how pike over the map objective....
enzopezzano
19-11-2013, 08:31
The problem is, he is not me and never happened. I've done several jtd 16 v, with a downpipe and no abnormality occurs in the pressure. usually do not hack.
Cristiano75
23-11-2013, 15:08
If you take to limit the prex of the turbo with a significant increase of diesel oil you have to x the force of things, put his hand to the "map an overboost" not to damage the ecu.. try to do a pull with the sixth as well as the 3500gg uphill for example you will see "that if c'? a lot of diesel fuel" as you alzer? the prex from that objective..
enzopezzano
23-11-2013, 18:51
Surely it is absolutely right what you say, but just give the right increments to the maps and diesel.
SandroMarciano
24-11-2013, 09:43
enzopezzano
24-11-2013, 21:19
If you say it. With a diagnosis at hand, I assure you that you do not have pressure spikes!
mikyrace82
25-11-2013, 20:56
perhaps you did not grasp what they said Cristian and Sandro...with substantial increases in diesel, you have strong peaks, so much so that if you do not moddano times over, the ecu would not be able to handle the pressure. In the cases pi? obvious leads to a pressure balllerina..
enzopezzano
25-11-2013, 21:17
And I had said that it was enough not to increase the maps diesel in an exaggerated way in order to avoid these problems.
I think I have grasped very well seen this ? my work.
To avoid the peaks and not having to sacrifice the reattivit? not c'? a way to cause the intervention of the variable geometry is pi? quick? After the peak, however, the pressure generally reaches the goal then ? only a matter of speed? intervention right?
on my punto 1.9 jtd with fixed geometry, the difference feels much more fluid and ready and variandola a little bit, you will notice the difference! it seems to have the sport button is active!
tidus1985
28-12-2013, 21:29
I didn't know that the punto 1.9 jtd had geometry fixed to the control electronic, which engine ?? the 105 hgt? multijet?
my ? euro3 1.9 jtd from 86cv, has control through pierboug controlled by the ecu with the map of the turbo and also the duty cycle of the westgate.
angelolsp
28-12-2013, 21:54
these point you are not understanding until yesterday hodomandato and the answer was, if your not you can check...at this point you can or can not??
tidus1985
28-12-2013, 21:54
you think, ma ? a c7? because the stool some time ago a 105 jtd 1.9 edc15c5 it seems to me, and had fixed geometry turbine in a closed loop,
you my ? edc15c7, year 2002: the point 86cv the turbo ? electronic (geo.fixed) with pierbourg controlled by the ecu, however, the turbo 80cv ? manual as the jtd105cv, on the 105hp map c'? but it does not command anything!
on the fiat/alfa etc., depending on the vintage, from 2002 on this? euro3 are all electronic
msport (exil77grande)
30-12-2013, 17:46
gentlemen
-nimex
-angelolsp
-tidus1985
I invite you to read the title before writing in a discussion with anything because there I really wish to keep this forum with all of its discussions clean then this is for you, the first and the last call is not official, the next I'll be forced to take official measures,it is not possible that in every discussion you have to have the babysitter that you must fix it,or for having the wrong section,or to have written off topic or spam, etc, etc,the guys a little cooperation would be welcome.
angelolsp
30-12-2013, 17:54
Received ...sccusate and good work
tidus1985
30-12-2013, 18:07
I apologize for the off topic
About the timing of an overboost I have also experienced an increase too large to go out and also have a lot of respect to the map goal,and then I see a change is to be done only on the drive where ? possible to monitor turbo pressure via pressure gauge or, at least, with u a diagnosis
I msport, I really had started with this topic but I have extended off-topic.
thanks
msport (exil77grande)
31-12-2013, 18:09
I msport, I really had started with this topic but I have extended off-topic.
thanks
if one is thrown from the balcony and you are close does not mean that you have to do it too,good continuation.
I hope to be inherent in the topic but I wanted to ask...when you give substantial increases in diesel , there ? ever happened to you that the turbo pressure is beginning to be a dancer, often in the area of high revs? from what depends is what?
Streetracer90
31-07-2014, 23:31
Dancer.. But how much are we talking about? A few millibars?
SandroMarciano
01-08-2014, 09:57
I hope to be inherent in the topic but I wanted to ask...when you give substantial increases in diesel , there ? ever happened to you that the turbo pressure is beginning to be a dancer, often in the area of high revs? from what depends is what?
Giving a lot of diesel, you can have a peak abnormal pressure that exceeds the goal and does not converge, you can actually resolve going to drop the closure of the vnt in the points in which it presents the anomaly.
Personally, I have noticed that touching the time of injection happens.. making Them give diesel in a normal way the cio? by dw, lim torque, iq limiter, it seems to me that is the same as in the map, or at least more? close as possible to the goal
I had to tap the map vgt. Having released all of the exhaust gases, grabbing a speed? such that the turbo pressure up to 1.8 bar 3500giri, while having the map turbo normal then 3500giri (always in 6marcia) the turbo pressure would be about 1.4 bar.
I forgot Alpha gt150*180.
personally, only in very rare c asi particular do I change the time of an overboost
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