Turbo Alfa 159 150 HP vs 210CV

[jared_poe]

Hi do you know if the two drive mountain turbines different?
I have compared the two maps and the 150 hp has the limiter to 2500mBar while the 210cv has the limiter to 2800mBar

[msport (exil77grande)]

obviously, the turbines are completely different,it would be a nice upgrade switch to the turbo.

[jared_poe]

what a bad luck oh...:D
instead, with regard to the 120 hp in comparison to the 150 hp?
the turbine and clutch are the same?

[dvdtuning]

The garrett gt1749v up to that pressure can turn?

[giarras]

the turbines are different to what he says munro ? correct.

[jared_poe]

good question dvdtuning, I would also add what? the limit of Nm that can? endure the clutch/flywheel?

[jared_poe]

but the compressor map would be this?

[jared_poe]

then when you change the torque limiter must not give as f? someone that 20-25% over the whole map, but you have to start from a 5% going to climb right?

[jared_poe]

This ? a graph of the GT17 I found on the net

[jared_poe]

ok the lim couple now I understand ;), but the ones I posted above are the graphs of the turbines, of which we were talking about before?

[jared_poe]

ok I think I understand that for now I don't need... however, if in the map, keep on the values of 2600/2700 mBar do not run the risk of doing damage (st? speaking of Alfa 159 150 HP)

[jared_poe]

are you talking about the original turbine

[jared_poe]

then, according to you ? better to leave the limiters to no more than 2600mBar to avoid the risk of damaging the turbine

[jared_poe]

[rego88]

[jared_poe]

would like to just let you know that a Turbo with variable geometry has its "achilles heel" in the vanes of the latter which will not withstand very high temperatures for long periods of time...
hypothetically, a vgt you might break even without increasing the press of work, but for the absurd due to an increase in temperature egt derived for a catalyst means clogged or long bursts without leave to cool down the turbo itself...

[jared_poe]

I was joking :D in fact I would like to thank you for all these info that we're giving... all these things, you know, to work or just for passion?

[rego88]

hehe... good rego cos? you f?.....I just wanted to warn for? that probably made after the change you will have some problems with the management of the geometry, nothing too serious, only that it will not be? veeery stable as the ori cio? give a big peak then caler? much to a certain number of laps and then again, piccare and nuvamente towards the end of the rpm returns to decrease as pressure...in short, contrary to the ori a, the pressure p? ups and downs...nothing that can't be solved with a good map...especially working on the maps an overboost.....

I had heard that it was not easy to manage the geometry on this turbine...if you are talking about so I think that a mod you have already made..... in egffetti I knew I had to play with the maps of the geometry.... thing that up until now I have never done.... I don't understand a thing.... x which is why it behaves like you said?? xk? climbs, then descends again then it goes back and then comes down again??? I could take reference from the maps of the geometry of a brera 210cv??

[msport (exil77grande)]

I had heard that it was not easy to manage the geometry on this turbine...if you are talking about so I think that a mod you have already made..... in egffetti I knew I had to play with the maps of the geometry.... thing that up until now I have never done.... I don't understand a thing.... x which is why it behaves like you said?? xk? climbs, then descends again then it goes back and then comes down again??? I could take reference from the maps of the geometry of a brera 210cv??

definitely closely studying the maps of the turbo 210cv something comes out.

[rego88]

I also thought I to what you said.... my idea was to copy the maps in the engine management from 210cv... then, surely, given that to me is missing a cylinder... the pressure theoretically ? more low.... at that point... start to raise slowly, by 5% on all the maps of the management turbo... and then I aiutero' with log based on rpm, pedal, prex, turbo, and proportion valve... for example.... if I see that absurd... 2800 rpm with a load of 80%, a percentage of valve 70% of the pressure spike, in an overboost to 2 bar, for example, wear' l' opening of the valve in the 60% to lower this phenomenon to that number of turns....
theoretically no if I remember correctly... the more the percentage ? high and the blades are closed... that is, in the charge phase, the more the blades are open (betting towards the impeller) then percentage type to 30% and more and be in a position of stable pressure, right??

[rego88]

not ? cos? simple rules why? going to change the duty cycle of the valve n75 is v? to madden the PID control that ? a control system for the turbo pressure.....
you should change this to the pid control then go to the mod on the n75....
only that many preparers also known prefer not to touch the map pid to not mess up the life why? and really tough to fix...this control uses a logic of their own which is entirely different from the one pu? management "simplistic" of such as you have described you.....
when I replace the turbines with other more large and I prefer not to touch the maps in the ecu and the act on the adjustment screw of the actuator itself....I do first cos? through the map even if sprucing up on the map, sometimes I have to give...
for you to better understand the pid control I would like to post a link that explains pretty well what I'm talking about but it's not? if I can....

what you say you're right.... but what do you do you ****llo mechanical??? if I have a problem like you described.... original, pike high, corrects and lowers, then revenge, then corrects, and then lowers..... if this is the case.... and the fix only mechanically.... I would have a lag at low revs, then starts to climb... and pulls up top.... if instead, I go to tap the map of the turbo.... I don't know if you've noticed.... to the midrange on the management of 2400 falls again, the percentage of valve type at 60% instead of 70/75% in order to lower the pressure in those ****lli.... you say that logic is wrong??? these controls that you say.... how do you understand them and where are they located??

[munro]

mechanically I'm going to rwgistrarmi otherwise the actuator,practically I'm going to touch the registry of the wastegate that controls the geometry turbo ? I leave almost everything the same in the map only a few small tweaks to the map turbo pressure and depending on the case svito or run it from 2 to 4 rpm, the wastegate log....of lag you don't have to anything with this system a p? rough I have to say, but effective enough for the actuator to? work on the same duty cycle as the ori in the launch will be? the "stroke of geometry", and from the minimum up to when you reopen the geometry of the pressure ? nearly identical to the trend in the map just in time to go to open to a progressive lowering of the press ? linearizarla f? less run the vgt....everything here nothing who knows? what....
then do not say that the logic of the 2.4 is wrong, but if the copy as well as adjusting the pid control will not get the desired result in fact the worst things I can think of to? would try to repeat.....
for the pid control takes the damos specific for the car in question, and especially one that has the attributes kilometers to modify them, why? not ? simple....

[rego88]

if it would be as you say.... the pressure spike, the most high-xk? the rod remains tight.... then, if I unscrew the dipstick x make you stay longer.... right???

[munro]

depends... more than just unscrew it I try to register it before I give you a ride to unscrew for example, then I feel the car if you do not satisfy me I go back to record avvitanto or unscrewing it until I can increase the boost...pretty much crazy I am, instead, that the control unit.....ahahahahah..... once you have found the right balance touch lightly on the map where the recording I can't seem to get it going as I say....but minimal not to believe that I'm going to upset the whole map....
the more that other suitable map to the pressure and not vice versa as it normally should be...

[rego88]

depends... more than just unscrew it I try to register it before I give you a ride to unscrew for example, then I feel the car if you do not satisfy me I go back to record avvitanto or unscrewing it until I can increase the boost...pretty much crazy I am, instead, that the control unit.....ahahahahah..... once you have found the right balance touch lightly on the map where the recording I can't seem to get it going as I say....but minimal not to believe that I'm going to upset the whole map....
the more that other suitable map to the pressure and not vice versa as it normally should be...

you, as I am always a bit twisted with the variable geometry ... my question was... if I map x absurd imposed 1.6 bar... and I can see that the pressure spike to 2.... then drops to 1.7 then descends again.... I only logical that I should lower the pressure physically.... to lower the pressure.... do I have to unscrew the rod to lengthen in a theoretical way.... right???
xke if I'm not mistaken.... when you turn on the car that you pull the dipstick... the pressure load ... in the moment that stretches.... the pressure stabilizes.... right???

[munro]

yes, we can say that when the dipstick ? pull c'? the pressure when you stretch,as you say,the pressure decreases.....
the fact ? that the rod of the geometry does not behave just like a wastegate of the turbine normal where you know that you must "stretch" to 1 bar and keeps pretty stable...the vgt ? in continuous movement to try to stabilize the press...
because while in the turbine fixed ? very easy to do,because once you open the WG, the exhaust gas does not make more turn the turbine "reach" completely in the vgt this "by-pass" is not the case, and then all the gases continue to pass through the turbine, making the task of the vgt's very difficult to keep the press steady...
even why? the turbo being a machine fluid dynamics is affected by the very conditions of its operating fluid to the cio? the exhaust gas which, as you know, are much more "hot and energetic" uphill or maybe with the car at full load....
let alone after a nice remapping....

[sportknight]

I don't need to copy the maps, why? are anyway 2 different engines with different filling of the exhaust and the intake,you should work on the original maps

[matd82]

I don't need to copy the maps, why? are anyway 2 different engines with different filling of the exhaust and the intake,you should work on the original maps
you should always work on the original maps....

[pdtechnology]

I agree to work on the original maps,and in the specific case according to my point of view you will otherwise the torque limiter maximum,I would work with the rail pressure to the original without going to change that in the regeneration(1e6624) torque limiters for single gear them will all of them except the one in the back, but not with the increases that I have seen,the maps ranging from 1 to 5 then all the cloth ori,however, I enclose a document, why? maybe someone can come in useful,and the other good thing ? to do a lot of tests with a diagnosis in hand and see what happens......you will discover many beautiful cose.........good job to all

[sportknight]

the limiter, the reverse also limits the speed? in the end so it would be good to bring him to the value of the other,at least on the 1.9 ? cos?

[emilground]

.. and if you mount a nice turbo bearings ? I would definitely be for the reliability? for the less turbolag, in fact, I have to inform on the costs for the 159

[rego88]

guys, I have performed this upgrade on my 147 1.9 150hp.... precisely I have installed:
turbine 2.4 jtdm 210cv gtb2056
stainless steel manifolds built by me
injectors plus (I modified mine, plus 2cc)
discharge line 60, straight-tube :D
intercooler, front-6.5 litres
the piping for the ic aluminium 60mm diameter
and, logically, reinforced clutch with flywheel monomassa

of working pressure 2 bar.... I have to say the truth?.... not ? at all as I said munro... that rises, falls, etc.... if I pull.... you plant them and just.... I have found that with a pressure gauge to the hand in the shot, the second I do 1.8 bar, the third 2 bars and fourth-2.1 bar.....
I lightly touched (5%), the geometry at low load, to climb up to 1% at 3500 rpm, and then leave it owers from 3500 rpm and up....
as already said.... the pressure remains stable.... but I still have to finish the map.... on a stretch (logically of the circuit), I took references from the ori, only with the map.... I started second-50km/h on the other stretch, about 400/500 metres further on, now I do not know exactly the distance, I was 158km/h, the other evening, I passed the same point at 168km/h.... 10km/h on a stretch so short and not ? then so little..... I made other tests on the evidence, but I can not get over the threshold, on the contrary, if fattening, that I see a little bit of smoke behind, I feel the makkina more braking, and I go out with 5km/h in less....
another thing I noticed.... the pressure of the rail, even if I give 10 bar pressure in the most.... the car is not any longer.... and I lose those 4 and 5 km/h
the fact is, that the more I leave it lean in the car and the more I feel like I run away from under the ass.... but anyway.... yes, I got those 10km/h.... on that stretch.... but with 2.1 bar.... I'm not supposed to be at least 220 hp??? it seems to me that the difference between myself and others that have a mini cooper s jcw 210cv, clio rs 203cv, it is little.... why? we are all of them' as speed?!! those 165 who 168 but the difference to me seems a little.... what do you think???

[msport (exil77grande)]

from or to 1000m how do you speed?

[munro]

of working pressure 2 bar.... I have to say the truth?.... not ? at all as I said munro... that rises, falls, etc.... if I pull.... you plant them and just.... I have found that with a pressure gauge to the hand in the shot, the second I do 1.8 bar, the third 2 bars and fourth-2.1 bar.....
I lightly touched (5%), the geometry at low load, to climb up to 1% at 3500 rpm, and then leave it owers from 3500 rpm and up....
as already said.... the pressure remains stable.... but I still have to finish the map....
what you have established in the map turbo press rego88???I have no way to view the maps I ask you this....
then, however, say that the press turbo pisciottana secular? them and just....
when with 3 gears you have three different pressures....bh? I don't seem very "stable and planted," the press turbo....
about 2 bar ? 2 bar accurate in all gears....
are strasicuro that if you pull the car to 6a show that the pressure salt...salt ... and then in the last few laps cala bad....
rego88 can I ask you how much fuel to inject??I say that maximum inject around 75mm3.....
try raising the iq around 90mm3....
then tell me if the press turbo not ? at all as I say...
that, however, already? the f? as I say, I....
if I could see the geometry of the turbo while you're mashing the gas..
you would see the wastegate to go up and down to try to stabilize the press turbo worse than a porn star in heat....